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#64903 - Tue Dec 17 2013 21:31 PM Combat Control Orientation Course 2014
David_Derasmo Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Oct 19 2013
Posts: 20
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Since the Advance Pararescue Orientation Course won't be held until 2015 I have gained an extremely big interest in the Combat Control Orientation Course or CCOC. I am a graduate of PJOC and have done extensive research on this course. From what I understand to apply I need a completed CAPF 31, CCOC Physical Evaluation sheet, CAPR 60-1, Emergency Notification Data form and a Hold Harmless Agreement form scanned and sent to the activity director between February 1, 2014 and March 15, 2014. Course expense is usually $200 and it is held at Pope AFB usually from August 4- August 11.

The start of the application process is supposedly announced on CAP TALK.COM and CAPCOMBATCONTROLORIENTATIONCOURSE.COM every year right before February. Though this is all off info I have discovered through research and asking around and is NOT an official stand point. I have lost access to CAP TALK and I cannot get a point of contact with official CCOC staff to save my life.

If there are any former CCOC grads, staff or Combat Controllers that have instructed the course that can give me some insight on applying I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for you time.

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#64908 - Wed Dec 18 2013 00:40 AM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: David_Derasmo]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 2070
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
Are you still CAP cadet or senior CAP member? The lost access http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthreads/images/markup_panel/default/bigger.gifto CAPTALK begs the question.

It appears you did post several inquiries at CAPTALK --- http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18254.0 -- and you were given answer of it was canned due to budget cuts.

Quote:
Combat Control Orientation Course (CCOC):

NOTE: CCOC 2013 has been cancelled

We are looking to have a great 2014 class – Visit us later for dates and registration info.


The CCOC is a relatively new CAP cadet opportunity, the first course being conducted in 2009.

Cadets live the life of a Combat Controller


As with all CAP cadet programs I will have to hunt down a CAP POC.

It should be noted that the cadet summer camp familiarization courses have extended and expanded significantly beyond acquainting high school students to aviation with focus on preflight skills, Morse code, Army laws, and first aid.

During the 1950s the CAP cadet program began introducing special or rather premium activities as incentives to attract cadets and to reduce cadet attrition (leaving the cadet program before competing 3 years).

It was during the 1950s that the relationship of cadet pararescue special/premium activates began. The pararescue connected special/premium activities has a much longer available to cadet history other than CCT, Security police/forces, and other special/premium activities.


Quote:
History Of The Ranger Program:

In response to the need for ground support for air search missions, the concept of the Ranger Team was born under the leadership of Col Phillip Neuweiler, PAWG Commander from the late 1940's to 1970. In 1953 USAF Para rescue and survival instructors trained PAWG SAR teams at Westover AFB, Massachusetts. Due to the dedication, motivation, and high quality of the students, the instructors called them Rangers.

In 1956 the school was moved to Col Neuweiler's property at Hawk Mountain, and was staffed by USAF and CAP members. In the early 1960's Ranger Staff Cadet Training was implemented, and the Hawk Mountain Ranger School gained national prominence.
The CAP histories unfortunately do not address the Air Force downsizing and organizational restructuring causing the demise of the training being offered at Westover AFB Massachusetts or that the cadet summer encampment programs are not "official" or even "semi-official" qualification or certification courses.

BTW the CAP "ranger" history of "In that time [1960s], several Ranger Teams had individuals that parachuted into aircraft crash areas. There was an Airborne Ranger shoulder insignia (shown below) worn in place of the PAWG shoulder insignia" is correct, but it omits a lot of information.

First off the parachute teams were adult (Senior Members) members of the CAP and not cadets (children/teenagers). More importantly the fiasco, ineffectiveness and almost disaster of these jump operations are never disclosed by CAP or any of the past and present CAP membership.

The 46th Air Rescue Squadron was located at Westover AFB. The squadron had five SA-16, two H-19 (Helicopter), C-47 and a pararescue team. It was deactivated during 1956. In those days the Pararescue AFSC title was actually parachute rescue and survival specialists. It didn't become pararescue until the 1960s.

Until 1953 there were ground rescue teams of rescue and survival specialists (not survival instructors now SERE Instructors). The difference being only jump qualified and in a parachutist duty position. It was the doing away of the ground rescue survival teams that led to pararescue being needed to distinguish from survival instructor, which was not a rescue survival specialist.

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#64917 - Thu Dec 19 2013 11:04 AM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: David_Derasmo]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 2070
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
I should have some info about COCC possibility in 2014 very soon after Wayne Norrad returns to Hurlburt from vacation.

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#64937 - Sat Dec 21 2013 16:03 PM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: David_Derasmo]
David_Derasmo Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Oct 19 2013
Posts: 20
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Thank you for all the help you have provided sir. You are correct, I have asked around quite a bit on CPTALK. Due to a cadet who was banned from the forums logging on using my IP address, I too unfortunately have been banned. I want to use at least two sources to keep myself updated. Since CAPTALK is no longer an available source I hoped to use this site as well as the CAPCombatControlOrientationCourse website. Thank you for your support.
As far as the whole ranger program goes, I was unaware that PJs were active in CAP's SAR in such a way. I learned something new. The Ranger Program in CAP today however, is over- hyped. Nothing compared to PJOC,APJOC or CCOC. Thank you for your time.

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#64938 - Sat Dec 21 2013 21:03 PM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: David_Derasmo]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 2070
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
Originally Posted By: David_Derasmo

As far as the whole ranger program goes, I was unaware that PJs were active in CAP's SAR in such a way.
Unfortunately the PJ involvement has no stability, especially with the demise of the Air Rescue Service/Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Service. Budget, unit OPSTEMPO, and individual PERSTEMPO are the significant factors for the PJ unit/School house direct involvement instability.

From 1947 thru until the mid-1960s operational control of CAP’s utilization to do SAR and participate in Air Force sponsored SAR training was under the Air Rescue Service. SAR mission tasking utilizations still get authorized approved through the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center.

The Civil Air Patrol is actually a split organization of Cadet Members (students) and Senior Members (The actual axillary having operational usability to do the SAR mission). The differences between cadet and senior organization are driven by the Federal Employees Compensation Act (FECA), endangering a minor liability concerns, child labor laws, and risk management.

Pertinent to this there is significant difference between cadet encampments and any training and quals the senior CAP organization gets and sustains. Cadet encampments of PJOC, APJOC, CCOC nature are orientation and familiarization as no duty status certifications result from completing these encampments. Pertinent to this the Civil Air Patrol has no Ranger duty status certification either pertinent to being a member of or leading a CAP Ground Team. (Reference Civil Air Patrol Capabilitoes Handbook and CAP REGULATION 35-6 (E) AERONAUTICAL RATINGS, EMERGENCY SERVICES PATCH AND BADGES, AND GROUND TEAM BADGES).

While I agree the CAP Ranger program is over-hyped, there is also the potential for of PJOC, APJOC and CCOC to become over-hyped. This is why I disclose history to emphasize the CAP cadet members do not have the participation usability to do SAR missions and other support usability of the CAP senior membership. This difference also imposes limits and restrictions on the complexity of risky and physically demanding training activities CAP cadets can participate in doing.

The HAWK Mountain Ranger School asserts "In the 1960's different Ranger Proficiency grades were established to recognize skill and experience, devised in a similar way to awards for the Boy Scouts of America. In that time, several Ranger Teams had individuals that parachuted into aircraft crash areas. There was an Airborne Ranger shoulder insignia (shown below) worn in place of the PAWG shoulder insignia."

Unfortunately, the various CAP parachute rescue teams in various locations from 1947 to mid-1960s were never utilized to parachute into an actual crash location or area. All were senior CAP members and not cadet members. There is no record of a SARCAP (Search and Rescue, Civil Air Patrol) exercise accomplished testing the preparedness and effectiveness of these teams to do such activities. All the jumps appear to be of airshow exhibition nature having little connection to demonstrating on the ground SAR activities.

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#64939 - Sun Dec 22 2013 08:49 AM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: Yukon]
David_Derasmo Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Oct 19 2013
Posts: 20
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
You are extremely accurate with a lot of your information, however, cadets ARE allowed to participate in Search and Rescue missions. As a cadet below the age of 18 you are allowed to obtain Ground Team ratings of: Ground Team Member Level
3,2 &1 in that order. You are allowed to become a Mission Radio Operator or Mission Staff Assistant. Regardless of if you are a senior member or cadet you are allowed to operate in the span of training of the certification you hold.
Once you become 18, however, you are allowed to become a Ground Team Leader or obtain you Scanner or Observer wings for Air operations.

For example: I am a 16 year old cadet that has his GTM 1, MRO,MSA and a training qual from PJOC. If a mission were to go out, say Mission 13-T-4444, I would be allowed to participate in ground team or mission base functionalities within the span of my training. This includes land nag, repelling, air to ground signals, working with k-9 teams, radio communications - whatever it is that my training has covered.

I apologize if I sound like I'm correcting you with all of this I just mean to benefit your knowledge. As for Encampments are concerned, every cadet must attend a 7 day encampment (C.A.P's version of basic training.) Upon graduation of Encampment cadets are allowed to attend what is called National Cadet Special Activities. Which are activities such as: PJOC, Hawk Mountain Ranger School, Undergraduate Pilot Training, etc.
Once again, thank you for your service and I appreciate the help with finding a point of contact for CCOC. You have no idea how much this helps me out.


Edited by David_Derasmo (Sun Dec 22 2013 08:50 AM)

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#64940 - Sun Dec 22 2013 14:34 PM Re: Combat Control Orientation Course 2014 [Re: David_Derasmo]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 2070
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
Originally Posted By: David_Derasmo
You are extremely accurate with a lot of your information, however, cadets ARE allowed to participate in Search and Rescue missions.
What I stated is there are limitations and restrictions on cadet utilization that differ potential cadet utilization from potential utilization senior member volunteers of the Civil Air Patrol. Air Force and Civil Air Patrol policies are very clear about this.

The article Ground Teams published in one of the various Civil Air Patrol magazines also clearly discloses “CAP’s ground teams consist of more cadets than Adults and that “Ground team leader status is reserved for members 18 and up, making that duty an ideal bridge between cadet and senior member status.”

Originally Posted By: David_Derasmo

Regardless of if you are a senior member or cadet you are allowed to operate in the span of training of the certification you hold.
The CAP ground team member and ground team leaders certifications are general and lacking in specialized and advanced skill knowledge requirements and task performance proficiencies. Any specialized or advanced useful certifications are all obtained from other (separate and independent from the Civil Air Patrol) agencies and organizations. Certifying (meets a minimum competent and proficiency standard) implies certification needs to be renewed at some point in time and that decertification sustains the integrity of the certification purpose and decertification can happen at any time it is discovered the certified individual is no longer or unable to perform to the standards the certification represents.

The Civil Air Patrol as an organization has a significant history of being very lacking in holding its membership to sustaining adequate skill knowledge competency and skill performance proficiencies (decertification) and this has resulted in CAP members misrepresenting their qualification and task performance suitability for mission assignments to the overall Incident Commander during joint or multiple agency response operations. Furthermore, pertinent to cadets’ participation CAP policy is “Cadets under 18 shall not be exposed to conditions in which their health is jeopardized by exposure to decomposing bodies and hazardous materials. Nor, absent parental permission, may they be exposed to widespread suffering.

The FAA owns pilot licensing and to a lesser degree using airspace to conduct airdrop and parachuting activities. How best to utilize the Civil Air Patrol (Air Force Auxiliary) for its participation in any particular SAR incident is controlled by the Air Force. Any other humanitarian and disaster relief participation, if not controlled by the Air Force, is controlled by other Federal, State, and local agencies. Again I clearly stated there are there are limitations and restrictions on cadet utilization that are more stringently restrictive and limiting than imposed on the Senior Member CAP organization.

AFI 10-2701 ORGANIZATION AND FUNCTION OF THE CIVIL AIR PATROL clearly states "CAP personnel are divided into two categories: volunteer cadet members (aged 12 –17) and volunteer senior members (aged 18 and older). CAP senior members are the primary personnel to respond to emergencies or disasters."

The reality is many cadets do not transfer to being a Senior member between age 18-21 as they do not want to lose their cadet officer rank and social status of their cadet officer rank status and privileges within the CAP fraternal social club. The significance of remaining within the cadet program is FECA and other Federal regulations and statues still affect what activities the 18-21 year old cadet can participate in pertinent to SAR missions and other humanitarian and disaster relief activities as a volunteer. The CAP organization tends to ignore this problem as it uses the 18-21 year old cadets to do cadet mentoring and training as many of its senior members have an aversion in being involved in doing cadet mentoring and training. The CAP charter states adult (Senior member) supervision of cadet activities, but it’s now mostly cadets between ages of 18 and 21 running amok making things up in ignorance and out of ignorance as they see fit.

The CAP cadet encampments of PJOC, APJOC and CCOC nature have since 1947 been tied to funding and other constraints limiting such encampments being a certifying activity.

Quote:
AFI 10-2701:

3.11. Additional CAP Cadet Program Support. Pursuant to 10 USC § 9444(b)(11), the Air Force may provide certain support to the CAP cadet program. Any support to the CAP cadet program must be approved in accordance with paragraph 3.6.3.1. of this Instruction.

3.11.1. Training. Air Force Installations and units are authorized to provide limited support to CAP cadet training activities and are encouraged to provide such support whenever possible. Support may include providing personnel as instructors for leadership training, providing tours of Installations and units, briefings on Installation and unit mission and capabilities, and instruction in Air Force roles and missions.


3.11.2. Cadet Encampments. CAP cadet encampments can be the most significant, worthwhile training experience in a CAP cadet’s career. A major goal of cadet encampments is to provide the cadets with a greater understanding of the Air Force missions and capabilities. Cadet encampments try to incorporate visits to the activities of the host Installation, such as security forces, base fire station, or other unique units or facilities, as part of the training curriculum. Exposure to the Air Force during cadet encampments can greatly influence CAP cadets to later pursue careers in the Air Force.


ALSO

Quote:
Civil Air Patrol P50-10 New Horizons-Guide for Cadet to Senior Member Transition:

Professional Development Program Structure.

The Senior Member Professional Development Program offers senior members more flexibility in setting their goals and how to achieve their goals. Like the Cadet Program there is a definite structure for progression, but unlike the Cadet Program, where the achievement structure is focused towards passing achievements, the Professional Development Program is focused towards building skills that make the unit work. Consequently, it will be your responsibility to seek out training opportunities and to grow as an officer as you progress in rank and responsibility.
Most if not all of CAP’s mission related duty status revolves around attaining or exceeding age 21 or being a Senior member. CAP’s ground team level 1, 2, and 3 certification training is extremely minimal and minimal effort existed at the organization's national leadership level to standardize what is the required ground team member and ground team leader training and qualifications prior to 2007.

Thus any belief CAP cadet encampments are any version of Basic Military Training or exist specifically to provide task knowledge and task performance proficiency certifications or intent to be a PJ/CCT screening and selection grooming process is flawed.

CAP IC is often not the overall IC when activities are of a joint agency operation. The context of this is CAP ground team capabilities and limitations must be carefully reviewed to verify their suitability for mission assignments. The lack of common minimal core task skill proficiencies, minimal functional fitness, and minimal level of knowledge results in very little dependability and reliability in verifying suitability for complex or physically demanding mission assignments away from base camp or main operating location.

The Civil Air Patrol’s awareness of this problem is addressed in various risk management and resource protection policies.

Quote:
For example CAPR 60-3 CAP EMERGENCY SERVICES TRAINING AND OPERATIONAL MISSIONS proscribes:

“1-30. Prohibited Equipment. CAP is often offered equipment that is not appropriate to our mission or is not reasonable for our personnel to use because of the training time required for personnel to remain proficient.”

1-31. Technical or Specialized Operations. CAP often recruits personnel with specialized training or expertise that can be useful on emergency services missions. Though the training required to specialize in these areas is often too cost prohibitive or risky for most personnel to undertake, CAP can still utilize these resources.

a. Members wishing to utilize the training they have earned must have prior permission to do so from NHQ CAP/DO, with written endorsement by the wing and/or region commander. The request must state the limitations proposed for use and how they propose to mitigate risk. If approved by the Air Force for use on an Air Force mission, these members will receive FTCA and FECA coverage just like any other member. Any additional liability coverage required to exercise these privileges is at the expense of the member. CAP personnel choosing to train to be useful in technical areas do so at their own risk. Background training and documentation will be kept at the wing or higher unit for each person given permission for these specialized operations.

b. Any special equipment or resources required for these personnel to exercise their privileges are furnished at the member’s own expense and risk.

c. The following technical or specialized operations are considered acceptable but still require prior written approval:
(1) Technical (Rope) Rescue or Mountain Rescue
(2) Canine Search and Rescue
(3) Mounted Search and Rescue
(4) Urban Search and Rescue


To some degree even the combat controllers’ Air Traffic Controller capabilities are connected to the FAA and pararescue’s medical capabilities have slowly and surely been tied by Public Law 93-154 "EMS Systems Act of 1973” obtaining and sustaining appropriate level of EMT certifications. The context is a lot of laws and regulations have been put in place by Federal, State, and local governments since 1949 that keep the CAP cadet utilization in the field limited and restricted. To a lesser degree senior members by being members of a “volunteer civilian organization” are also limited by risk management, resource protection, FECA, and liability laws and regulations.

A history of the implementing and evolvi...om 1947 to 2000 provides insight into how and why USAF pararescue personnel began during the 1970s to be required to obtain and sustain appropriate EMT certification from the National Registry of EMTs.

Originally Posted By: David_Derasmo

For example: I am a 16 year old cadet that has his GTM 1, MRO,MSA and a training qual from PJOC. If a mission were to go out, say Mission 13-T-4444, I would be allowed to participate in ground team or mission base functionalities within the span of my training. This includes land nag, repelling, air to ground signals, working with k-9 teams, radio communications - whatever it is that my training has covered.
Not if it is a joint operation. As a team leader over the years I have sent both CAP cadet and CAP senior member away from the incident for lacking the necessary qualification and suitability to function in any support capacity.

Originally Posted By: David_Derasmo

I apologize if I sound like I'm correcting you with all of this I just mean to benefit your knowledge.
You have demonstrated lacking CAP expertise and experience of sufficient quality to benefit my knowledge. Consequently, your apology is misdirected towards me.

The COCC is dependent on being funded. Until it's funded, there is no POC to be found to help you. All I'm trying to find out for you is if it's being funded in 2014 and if so is there a POC yet.

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