Ok i am having a little trouble with the 25 meter underwater. I have done lots of research and alot of people say the frog kick is the easiest way underwater but i cant do that underwater. everytime i do it i dont go anywhere. so today while i was at the pool i was swimming and made it 25 meters but wasnt for sure if i should just pace myself down the pool or should i just book it and make it down there quickly? my way of swiming it is to put my hands out in front and just pull to my side then tuck them down and push to my side kinda like a breaststroke. and i am constantly flutter kicking.

First:

One thing I have learned, never say "I CAN'T"...you can and you will. Dude, I looked like a complete retard flapping around in the water. TE said he was the same way, a lot of controllers didn't know how to swim or do anything right...but it takes a positive attitude, regardless of your personal doubt.

It took me a while to get a feel for how my legs and the inside of my feet are supposed to feel. If you take both of your arms and raise them, and clap them together, while you have them fully extended out in front of your chest...like a "Hulk Smash" if you will...your feet portray this same feeling, and they should spread as wide as you can and "clap" your feet together...when you begin to clap them, you should straighten your body and become more hydrodynamic...stretch out in front of you and point forward.

If you study the pool bottom, and just reach forward, and do the motion, you will see how you get boost from doing so. Small at first, but eventually you time it with your keyhole stroke and you should be able to get across the pool in 5-7 strokes...practice relaxing your body...and study this video from you tube. This all has been mentioned before in other posts.

Just practice, and it will come with time.

Study the video...the only thing I do different in the video is my keyhole stroke goes out wide, and I pull into the sides, then down. Google the keyhole if you aren't familiar with it. Underwaters are about being calm, controlled, and efficient...not muscle-ling your way through it...some people do, and can handle it...but if you can calm yourself, you better yourself in the long run.

Heres the video we have mentioned before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eue5gC3GBQ0&feature=related

I dunno if anyone else has felt this way, but for me, it seems like i get all my propulsion from my arms.

The video is dead on. Do it like that and you can definitely make it.

you do get propulsion from your legs. So i know i feel my kick i use it while i'm bringing my arms back up in front of me again so it doesn't feel like i'm stopping in the water. It also puts you into a good rhythm and takes your mind off of the speed.

25m were hard for me at first as well. However the more you work out and practice them the better your lung capacity will get.

I can do a 50m on command now it will come just stick with it and realize that you can do it and just need more practice.

As stated...

Take your time going across, don't rush. Be as relaxed as possible, and when/if you begin to panic, remind yourself that you are in control of your body, not the pain and the urge to breathe.

so is the arm movement that the cory guy in the video is doing the "keystroke" because thats the method i do but instead of frog kicking i flutter kick. should i get the dolphin kick down instead of doing the flutter kicks?

No to the flutters. The tried and true technique is the frog, or breaststroke kick. Time it so that you kick as you are bringing your hands up from the keyhole stroke.

the frog and breaststoke kick look the same. i guess i will try to learn that kick and hope it works out better.

They are the same.

i think the best way is the way that gets you there.

sparky that's not the best way...you get taught the keyhole stroke in the pipeline.

If you try to just get to the other side as fast as possible you raise your heart-rate and it's much harder to recover. The keyhole stroke efficiently gets you across the pool and keeps your heart rate down if you do it properly.

And when your taking a PAST or needing to conserve energy your going to be wasting a bunch if your just flailing under-water and flutter kicking to get you to the other side as fast as possible.

Take time and learn the keyhole stroke and how to perfect it. It will only pay off in the end.

MMcGon,

thank you for the correction, hopefully i can complete a 25 with your outstanding advice.

Underwaters should be able to be done more than twice...take the past for example. That is the "minimum" required to be "trained" to do better.

If you rush across the pool, you are NOT going to be able to complete another one or a third one, or 10 of them rushing across. And to think you are going to get a nice break in between them in the pipeline, after rushing through...isn't going to happen.

Remember this: When your muscles are being used, in anyway, this means when they are locked or tensed, you lungs are feeding them oxygen through your blood. The harder you work, the more deprivation you cause. Being relaxed and letting loose a little, but remaining straight and water-dynamic in the water helps conserve this.

When I am going across, my butt tends to be the highest object...I let everything loose and relax my body.

Practices makes permanent so practice correctly.

Good luck guys.

I frog kick, extend my arms, and glide for as long as I can. Then I pull with my arms and give one good dolphin kick. That gets me across the pool in fairly short order without using much energy at all. Just relax and gliiiiiiide.

Do all you hurby guys get together at the pool in the morning?

Yes. 11am

Random input from my year or so of striving for excellence in underwaters...

Make your goal to take as few keyhole strokes/kicks as possible. If I am efficient, 3 keyholes after a good pushoff will get me across a 25 yard pool easily. However, if I don't concentrate on efficiency, I'll take five.

Know your capabilities. Do intervals with underwaters. Make your goal 1:30--then exceed that.

I notice that the day after a hard workout, my lungs are tight and seem smaller. Underwaters are harder. But after awhile they will loosen up. Push through the pain! Remind yourself that making a habit of quitting will follow you.

Once again, musings from someone who spends his free time training. Wish someone would have been there to tell me this stuff.

cool i'll be there monday, and i'll bring my Rocket fins!

The pool is closed on Mondays. Tuesday we will be there @ 11

See you all there.

I'll Be there tommorrow if the pools open. i think we got a dwn day!

hey guys sprry if im jacking this thread and I have researched but I cant find anything. My question is on the underwaters how do they count the intervals? the interval time starts when you come up and start your 25m freestyle back or does it start when you freestyle back and hit the wall? I heard your freestyle back is part of your rest time is this correct? Thank you very much in advance!!

Gregg

The clock starts when the underwater starts. The faster you make it across and freestyle back, the more time you have to rest. When it hits the interval time you go again.

really?? so lets say for the final eval you only have 1:30 to swim your underwater and freestyle back? so you only have literally a few seconds of rest?

yes thats correct

the key from my point of view is to try to control you heart rate, stay relaxed, conserve energy by taking slow strong strokes and streamlining underwater. where loose shirt and shorts to create more drag. then the next time where the speedo only. research everything you would do at indoc and train like you would as if you were there. Unfortunately for myself i'm unable to crosstrain to Pararescue now, i still train just because i had originally set a goal for myself to meet indoc grad req'mnts. Plus i enjoy it! best of luck!

thank you everybody for the help and im glad i learned that now..and thank you

Gregg

It helps me to really focus on my breathing and to not all out sprint on the freestyle back.

yes...flutter kicks will use up more of your oxigen..
do the frog kick its much better!

how is this "Keyhole Stroke".....Is that what Cory is doing?

Yes. Here's a better explanation/view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zdKD0VMKWg#t=154s

During indoc, do you get to push off the wall when you start your underwaters?

I know this post is old but I figured I'd post this for anyone else who is unsure about how to do underwaters. http://sofwods.com/2011/11/vid-001-underwater/