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#58011 - Fri May 27 2011 11:51 AM CCT and TACP
pspiz Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun May 22 2011
Posts: 7
Loc: Pennsylvania
Is the Air Force combat controllers and TACP the only members of the Military who are allowed to call in air support for certian missions? Or are there Army units that train personnel to call in support? I believe I read somewhere Cavalry Scout units could. Is this true?

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#58013 - Fri May 27 2011 13:04 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
pspiz Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun May 22 2011
Posts: 7
Loc: Pennsylvania
And there was also a Nat Geo Special where they went with an Army special forces unit. They were showing some of the team members when they got to a SF guy who was their person who was their Air Support guy. He wasnt Air Force. So do Air Force CCTs and TACPs only go on one time missions and not stay with a team for a while such as the members of Firebase cobra (Nat Geo feature) Or does it just depend on if they are needed for a specific unit?

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#58014 - Fri May 27 2011 13:07 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 2021
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
JTAC qualification is not limited to USAF TACP and USAF CCT. However doing such duties does require jopint service agreed to JTAC qualification and certification.

The Air Force limits JTAC qualification to primarily members awarded TACP and CCT AFSC.

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#58022 - Sat May 28 2011 05:11 AM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
Guard MC Offline
Operator

Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1864
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
The answer, as Yukon pointed out, is that JTAC Qualification isn't limited to TACP and CCT; other services MOS can be rated JTACs. The Navy SEALs, the Army and the Marines all run their own JTAC qualification courses and programs and each determines which AFSC/MOS are allowed to hold the qualification. Our coalition partners do much the same. The USAF and US Marines are the only services (off the top of my head) who have AFSCs specifically dedicated to JTAC duties, for everyone else, a host of AFSC/MOS can hold the rating based on the needs of their service.

ANYONE in any service, can call Emergency CAS regardless of qualification in an emergency situation. The pilot responding to the request has to work a lot harder that he does with a JTAC and it usually takes longer, but it has been done on numerous occasions.

The real question is how good are the personnel calling CAS. The simple answer is the more time and effort dedicated to calling CAS, the better the person will be. Personnel who simply go to a course and then rarely talk to aircraft again will not be very good. Experience has shown USAF CCT and TACPs to be among the best from any nation and any service at providing CAS but they are not the only ones doing so.
_________________________
Guard MC

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#58039 - Sun May 29 2011 19:48 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
pspiz Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun May 22 2011
Posts: 7
Loc: Pennsylvania
Alright thank you very much Yukon and Guard MC. That really clears up a lot

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#58362 - Sun Jun 26 2011 23:16 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
roro1217 Offline
New Member

Registered: Tue May 10 2011
Posts: 34
i know both cct and tacp can be jtac qualified, but was is the big difference between the too besides scuba, halo etc. i chose to go cct because of the challenge and schools it provides but never have got a definite answer about seperates the two careers, is it the mission? my recruiter told me that tacps drop bombs and are usually just on patrol with regular army units but i have seen videos where tacps are also attached to sf teams. he also said cct do direct action and recon, and all the secret missions and only attached to sf teams, seals and anything spec ops. can someone please clear this up for me i have been trying to figure the answer out for quite a while.

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#58364 - Mon Jun 27 2011 09:19 AM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
Guard MC Offline
Operator

Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1864
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
roro,
First, please use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation when posting. You can't expect an intelligent and well reasoned response when you post crap. If you are not going to put effort into posting your questions, why should anyone put effort into their replies?
The difference between CCT and TACP has been covered many times, so many times that simply typing "TACP" into the search function will yield over a dozen pages of posts relating to this subject.
Here are some differences between the two:
TACPs are assigned to regular Army Units and work directly for them and usually live on Army Posts.

CCTs are tasked to support US and Coalition SOF Partners on an as needed basis; individuals and units often train with these partners but are not directly assigned to them until deployment.

TACPs belong to Air Combat Command (except the TACPs in the 17th ASOS, who are assigned to AFSOC to support the Army Rangers), while CCTs are assigned to Air Force Special Operations Command. Why does this matter? Funding for equipment and training are more plentiful in AFSOC STS than in ACC TACP. Primary SOF missions will be assigned to AFSOC units first, then if they can't fill it, AFSOC will ask for ANG help, then finally ask for TACP's help.

CCT and TACP selection, pipeline and training are also very different. You can look that up, too.

There are other differences and a wealth of posts to help you understand the differences and similarities between CCT and TACP. Please search them out, read up, then post more detailed questions if you need more illumination.
_________________________
Guard MC

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#58372 - Tue Jun 28 2011 12:51 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
MMcGon Offline
Operator

Registered: Sun Jan 27 2008
Posts: 154
Loc: STTS
Another large difference between the two is CCT's are FAA certified Air Traffic Controller's and can actually direct air traffic. Where as a Tacp is a JTAC which is used during combat only. CCT's are able to open and run an airfield. TACP's don't have that ability.
_________________________


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#58373 - Tue Jun 28 2011 13:48 PM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: pspiz]
TE Offline
Operator

Registered: Thu Oct 17 2002
Posts: 4132
Loc: Various
COMBAT CONTROL

1. Specialty Summary. Provides command, control, communications, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C3ISR) to assist, control and enable the application of manned and unmanned, lethal and non-lethal airpower in all geographic and environmental conditions across the full spectrum of military operations. Includes terminal control (air traffic control [ATC]) and targeting, and control of air strikes (including close air support [CAS]) and use of visual and electronic aids to control airheads and enable precision navigation. Provides long-range voice and data command and control and communications. Performs tactical level surveillance and reconnaissance functions, fusing organic and remote controlled technologies and manned platforms to build the common operating picture (COP). Related DoD Occupational Subgroup: 125000.

2. Duties and Responsibilities:

2.2. Plans, coordinates, and conducts reconnaissance and surveillance of potential assault zones, targets and areas of interest. Operates advanced technologies, including ground based sensors and unmanned aerial systems (UAS) to support reconnaissance and target identification. Surveys runways, assault zones (drop, landing, forward area refueling points [FARP]) and other areas critical to aviation and records data for inclusion in mission plans. Reports current battlefield information.

2.1. Plans, organizes, supervises, and establishes ATC in the target area. Initiates, coordinates, and issues ATC clearances, holding instructions, and advisories to maintain aircraft separation and promote safe, orderly, and expeditious flow of traffic under visual and conventional approach control flight rules. Operates and monitors portable and mobile communications equipment and terminal and tactical navigational aids required to control and support air traffic in forward areas. Evaluates and relays status of airfields and assault zones to inbound aircraft and higher headquarters. Provides limited weather observations, including surface and altitude wind data, temperature, and cloud heights. Prepares and issues advisories to pilots, ATC and other agencies concerning weather, notice-to-airmen information, air traffic flow control measures, and wake turbulence. Provides flight assistance and emergency service to air traffic. Records weather and ATC data. Controls vehicular traffic on the airport movement area.

2.3. Identifies, assesses, and marks assault zones with visual and electronic navigational aids for day and night air-land and airdrop operations. Coordinates clearances, instructions, advisories, and air traffic movement with forward and rear area commanders. Uses ground-to-air communications equipment in conjunction with visual and electronic systems to control and expedite the movement of en route, arriving, and departing air traffic. Directs actions to handle aircraft emergencies or mishaps. Coordinates casualty and patient evacuation between aviation and medical personnel. Provides airlift operations support that cannot be provided by combat communications groups or other agencies. Operates global positioning systems (GPS) equipment for targeting, navigation, and for the location, assessment and establishment of assault zones. Coordinates airfield ground support (crash/fire/rescue, sweep).

2.4. Targets and controls fires. Plans, coordinates, and conducts fires to accomplish supported commander objectives. Includes CAS and supporting arms for surface elements and C3ISR in support of combined forces air component commander (CFACC) assets. Employs visual and electronic navigation and marking equipment to direct aviation assets to target. Issues weapons release clearance.

2.5. Deploys into semi- and non-permissive forward areas and forward operating locations by land (mounted, special purpose vehicle or dismounted), sea (surface or subsurface naval vessel, small watercraft, self contained underwater breathing apparatus [SCUBA], or surface swim) or air (parachute, airmobile, air-land) to participate in the full spectrum of military operations to include air expeditionary force (AEF), force projection, direct action (DA), counterterrorism (CT), counter-proliferation (CP), foreign internal defense (FID), humanitarian assistance (HA), special reconnaissance (SR), personnel recovery (PR), noncombatant evacuation operations (NEO), integrated survey program (ISP), counter narcotic (CN), operational preparation of the environment (OPE), advanced force operations (AFO) and fire support operations. Uses demolitions to remove obstacles affecting safe air traffic flow in the target area. Maintains qualification on primary assigned weapons.

3. Specialty Qualifications:

3.1. Knowledge. Knowledge is mandatory of: ATC, reconnaissance and air power control principles and procedures; aircraft flight characteristics; encompassing tactical airlift and weapons delivery; air and surface firepower systems and effects; International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and military air regulations; map, aeronautical chart, and publication use; characteristics and use of tactical and ATC communications systems and equipment, air navigation aids, night vision equipment; GPS and other operational equipment; meteorology principles; deployment procedures; joint service operation; infiltration techniques; movement and route selection; alternate insertion and extraction (AIE) methods; parachute procedures and equipment; jump master training; small unit tactics; amphibious and SCUBA operations; small arms and crew served weaponry; and destructive demolition applications.

3.2. Education. For entry into this specialty, completion of high school is desirable.

3.3. Training.

3.3.1. Completion of the following courses is mandatory for award of AFSC 1C231:

3.3.1.1. Combat Control Preparatory Course.

3.3.1.2. Combat Control Operator (ATC).

3.3.1.3. Combat Survival.

3.3.1.4. Airborne (Static-line Parachutist).

3.3.1.5. Combat Control School.

3.3.2. Completion of the following courses is mandatory for award of AFSC 1C251:

3.3.2.1. Military Freefall Parachutist (Parachutist).

3.3.2.2. Combat Diver Qualification Course.

3.4. Experience. The following experience is mandatory for award of the AFSC indicated:

3.4.1. 1C251. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C231. Also, experience in reconnaissance, terminal control, and combat enabling tasks.

3.4.2. 1C271. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C251. Also, experience performing or supervising duties involving reconnaissance, and terminal control and enabling tasks.

3.4.3. 1C291. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C271. Also, experience managing operations involving reconnaissance, and terminal control and combat control enabling tasks.

3.5. Other. The following are mandatory as indicated:

3.5.1. For entry into this specialty:

3.5.1.1. Attain or exceed the minimum standards specified by the applicable Combat Control Team (CCT) physical ability and stamina test (PAST) IAW AFI 36-2626, Airman Retraining Program, Attachment 11.

3.5.1.2. See attachment 4 for additional entry requirements.

3.5.2. For entry, award, and retention of AFSCs 1C211/31/51/71, physical qualification for air traffic controller duty, marine diving duty, and parachute duty IAW AFI 48-123, Medical Examinations and Standards.

3.5.3. For entry, award, and retention of AFSCs 1C211/31/51/71/91/00 qualification to bear firearms according to AFIs 31-207, Arming and Use of Force By Air Force Personnel; 36-2226, Combat Arms Training and Maintenance (CATM); and AFSOCI 36-2204, Special Tactics Operator Training.

3.5.4. For award and retention of AFSCs 1C231/51/71/91/00:

3.5.4.1. Physical qualification and maintenance of personal physical standards as defined in AFI 13-219, Special Tactics Standards and Evaluation, and AFSOCI 36-2204, Special Tactics Training.

3.5.4.2. Specialty requires routine access to Secret material or similar environment. For award and retention of AFSCs 1C2XX, completion of a current National Agency Check, Local Agency Checks and Credit (NACLC) according to AFI 31-501, Personnel Security Program Management.

NOTE: Award of the 3-skill level without a completed NACLC is authorized provided an interim Secret security clearance has been granted according to AFI 31-501.

3.5.4.3. Qualification as a static-line parachutist.

3.5.5. For award and retention of AFSCs 1C251/71/91/00:

3.5.5.1. Qualification as a military freefall parachutist.

3.5.5.2. Qualification as a combat diver.

3.5.5.3. Must maintain an Air Force Network License according to AFI 33-115, Vol 2, Licensing Network Users and Certifying Network Professionals.
---------------------------------------------
TACTICAL AIR CONTROL PARTY (TACP)

1. Specialty Summary. Engages enemy forces utilizing advanced technologies and weapon systems to direct airstrikes in close proximity of friendly forces. Controls and executes operational air and space power. Operates in austere combat environments independent of an established airbase or its perimeter defenses. Employed as part of a joint, interagency or coalition force to support Combatant Commander objectives. Primarily assigned to U.S. Army Installations. Member of Battlefield Airman grouping. IAW AFPD 10-35, Battlefield Airman. Related DoD Occupational Subgroup: 125000.

2. Duties and Responsibilities:

2.1. Operates communications, digital networks and video targeting equipment. Integrates, plans and briefs maneuver commanders and staff on combat capabilities of air and space power. Processes and requests air and space resources to support ground maneuver units.

2.2. Targets and controls surface-to-surface and air-to-surface-fires. Plans, coordinates and conducts fires to accomplish supported commanderís objectives, includes Close Air Support (CAS) and supporting arms for surface elements, command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) in support of Combined Forces Air Component Commanderís assets. Employs visual, electronic and marking equipment to direct aviation assets to target. Issues weapons release clearance.

2.3. Conducts infiltration, surface movement, and exfiltration functions with combat maneuver forces. Performs mounted and dismounted navigation. Operates in combat vehicles. Performs site selection. Performs small unit tactics. Administers combat lifesaving assistance. Performs and supervises advanced physical conditioning programs.

3. Specialty Qualifications:

3.1. Knowledge. Knowledge of theater air and space operations to include; weapons systems and munitions characteristics and capabilities; aircraft employment; intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities; targeting systems; close air support tactics, techniques and procedures; Military Decision Making Process; joint fires integration.

3.1.1. Combat field skills to include: tactical communications and computer procedures and equipment; data links; antenna theory; map, global positioning equipment, navigation techniques, and military symbology; small unit tactics; close quarter combat; signaling and marking; individual and crew-served weapons employment; battlefield lifesaving procedures; chemical warfare defense equipment.

3.1.2. Applies knowledge of: occupational risk management; Joint, Army and Air Force manuals, instructions, technical orders, and regulations; physical readiness; Theater Air Ground System; Air Support Operations Center (ASOC) and TACP vehicle and support equipment operations, management, and operator maintenance; Army and Air Force supply and mobility procedures; Army command and unit staff functions and taskings.

3.2. Education. For entry into this specialty, completion of high school with courses in advanced mathematics and basic computer skills is desirable.

3.3. Training. The following training is mandatory for award of the AFSC indicated:

3.3.1. 1C431. Completion of the tactical air control party apprentice course.

3.3.2. 1C451. Completion of Survive, Evade, Resistance and Escape (SERE) SV-80-A course.

3.3.3. 1C471. Completion of the tactical air control party craftsman and USJFCOM-accredited Joint Terminal Attack Controller (JTAC) Qualification courses.

3.4. Experience. The following experience is mandatory for award of the AFSC indicated:

3.4.1. 1C451. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C431. Also, experience in ASOC or TACP operations.

3.4.2. 1C471. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C451. Also, experience in supervising ASOC or TACP operations.

3.4.3. 1C491. Qualification in and possession of AFSC 1C471. Also, experience in managing ASOC or TACP work centers. Experience in both ASOC and TACP operations is desired.

3.5. Other. The following are mandatory as indicated:

3.5.1. For entry into this specialty:

3.5.1.1. Successful completion of the TACP Physical Ability and Stamina Test (PAST).

3.5.1.2. See attachment 4 for additional entry requirements.

3.5.2. For entry, award and retention of AFSCs 1C411/31/51/71/91/00:

3.5.2.1 Compliance with the medical standards for Ground Based Controller Duty as defined in AFI 48-123, Medical Examinations and Standards.

3.5.2.2. Qualification to operate government vehicles according to AFI 24-301, Vehicle Operations.

3.5.2.3. Ability to speak English clearly and distinctly as demonstrated by Reading Aloud Test administered in accordance with AF Pamphlet 48-133, Physical Examination Techniques.

3.5.2.4. Must maintain eligibility to deploy and mobilize worldwide. Personnel with an Assignment Limitation Code of C-1 or C-2 may retain AFSC 1C4X1 as long as they are capable of successfully completing all core tasks in the 1C4X1 Career Field Education and Training Plan.

3.5.2.5. Qualification to bear firearms according to AFIs 31-207, Arming and Use of Force by Air Force Personnel; 36-2226, Combat Arms Training and Maintenance (CATM); and AFSOCI 36-2204, Special Tactics Operator Training.

3.5.3. For award and retention of AFSC 1C471/91/00, certification as a JTAC according to AFI 13-112, Volume 1, Joint Terminal Attack Controller Training Program, and Volume 2, Joint Terminal Attack Controller Standardization/Evaluation Program.

3.5.3.1. For personnel certified as a JTAC, regardless of skill level, permanent JTAC decertification IAW AFI 13-112, Volume 2, will result in removal from the 1C4XX AFSC.

3.5.3.2 Certification as a JTAC according to AFI 13-112, Volumes 1 and 2 and award of SEI 914, JTAC, is required prior to attendance at the 7-level awarding course.

3.5.4. For award and retention of AFSCs 1C451/71/91/00, must maintain an Air Force Network License according to AFI 33-115, Vol 2, Licensing Network Users and Certifying Network Professionals.

3.5.5. Specialty requires routine access to Secret material or similar environment. For award and retention of AFSCs 1C4XX, completion of a current National Agency Check, Local Agency Checks and Credit (NACLC) according to AFI 31-501, Personnel Security Program Management.

NOTE: Award of the 3-skill level without a completed NACLC is authorized provided an interim Secret security clearance has been granted according to AFI 31-501.
_________________________
TE
Pararescueman (Ret)/Webmaster/Administrator/RKC
The real test comes when all strength has fled, and men must produce victory on will alone...

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#59973 - Wed Jan 11 2012 11:32 AM Re: CCT and TACP [Re: Guard MC]
iLostMyWeapon Offline
New Member

Registered: Tue Jan 10 2012
Posts: 12
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Guard MC
roro,
Here are some differences between the two:
TACPs are assigned to regular Army Units and work directly for them and usually live on Army Posts.

CCTs are tasked to support US and Coalition SOF Partners on an as needed basis; individuals and units often train with these partners but are not directly assigned to them until deployment.

TACPs belong to Air Combat Command (except the TACPs in the 17th ASOS, who are assigned to AFSOC to support the Army Rangers), while CCTs are assigned to Air Force Special Operations Command. Why does this matter? Funding for equipment and training are more plentiful in AFSOC STS than in ACC TACP. Primary SOF missions will be assigned to AFSOC units first, then if they can't fill it, AFSOC will ask for ANG help, then finally ask for TACP's help.



GuardMC, with that being said, as a TACP would I be regularly stationed on an Army post? Like say 3-5 years at Ft.Benning, then Ft.Lewis, then Ft.Drum? Are TACPs assigned to purely Infantry units? Or is Calvary, Armor, Artillery in the mix as well?

On the contrary with CCT, will I never leave Hurlburt except to go on a mission? And as you mentioned on an "as needed basis" does that mean mission to mission, as like with the SEALs or are there definitive deployments for months at a time?

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