Has anyone heard of or actually gone from being an enlisted cct member to getting a commision and becoming an STO? If so what was the process, it seems phase 1 and phase 2 would be completely obsolete or atleast changed a little...

Custom,

I just went through Phase II and we did have a Sgt. with us who made it through the process and will be becoming an officer and a STO. Right now its actually really exciting, because the way they are setting it up is that you won't even have to worry about applying to OTS. If you apply for Phase II and make it through then you will be given a slot to OTS. The OTS board has made a deal with STO selection where our selection process (Phase I and Phase II) will be substituted for the OTS selection board. I think this program just started up, so you'll definitely want to call down to AST. Phase II is exactly the same for CCTs as for everyone else; the trainers will look at you a little differently, but you will go through the same stuff. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions.

I know of very few enlisted CCT that get commissioned through OTS and went straight to being an STO. Most prior enlistd CCT that attend selelction I know of, do not get selected on their first attempt at completing Phase II. They do another job in the Air Force and then hit selection again and got picked up on their second time at Phase II.

For those that get commissioned through ROTC, the selection rate is much better on the first attempt.

I think that what the board may be looking for from a prior enlisted CCT is someone that is going to return as an STO and step in to a team leader position. Some people can only build this with time away.

Good Luck,

Forgive me for reviving an old thread but this is a subject I have pondered a lot. TJC in my introduction thread asked me if I had thought about STO, as I am enlisting CCT and already hold a college degree. The fact is my ultimate goal is to one day become an STO. However, I want to spend a couple years in the field first, doing the "fun" stuff, and getting hands on experience before I get saddled behind a desk. My men will one day be putting their lives into my hands and I owe it to them to become the best leader I can possibly be, and the best way to achieve that high level of leadership ability is through on the job training. I think enlisted experience will give me more initial credibility with my team, making me a more effective leader. I will also be able to better address the needs of my men as I can look back upon my time when I was in their shoes. I came into AFROTC and the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets wanting to become an STO and an effective leader, I found the individuals I most aspired to emulate, the leaders who I would be willing to go to war with, where SNCOs and the officers who had prior enlisted experience. No offense to officers who commission without prior enlisted experience, I am not proposing that we should get rid of all commissioning programs that allow people to commission without enlisted experience. This is just my personal conviction regarding my future career progression.

VT,

First, much of what CCT does is not "fun"...it's dangerous...guys die doing the mission.

Second...a couple years will not garner you too much respect from an enlisted prospective...the CCT pipeline is nearly 2 years long...you then have mission qualification training and upgrade training to do after that and won't be deployed for at least a year (if you're lucky)...so, you may have a year of actual CCT experience after 4 years in the Air Force...and that is in a good year. You'll be well served to listen to your experienced SRA, NCOs and SNCOs...that, coupled with prior enlisted experience will go a long way towards earning the respect of the team.

Experience trumps academia in this business.

Many good STOs I've worked with realize this and learn from their experienced 7-level CCT NCOs...but know that even given your enlisted CCT experience, you are expected to do more...and MUST rely on NCOs and SNCOs in your unit...good STOs do this...some don't...to their detriment.

TE,

I apologize for my choice of words, in regards with the use of the word "fun". To clear up any ambiguity, I meant the difference between being in the field and performing the ATC mission as opposed to being an administrator. I know a couple VT alumni who have died in OIF and OEF. Going to the funerals and living with the memories I shared with them is definitely NOT "fun". It hurts and that is one of the few things I am not looking forward to about this job. I'm sorry, "fun" was a poor choice of words.

I agree with you in that a college degree alone does not qualify one to lead. I have many friends who are now becoming platoon leaders and with all due respect to them, I feel that four years in ROTC and a college degree hardly qualifies them to lead men, who have multiple combat tours, into harms way.

The Army ROTC unit at VT had a Special Forces MAJ with prior enlisted experience and a Special Forces SGM. With my interest in Special Operations, I was fortunate enough to get numerous opportunities to meet with these gentlemen. The ideas that I stated above were shaped largely by the discussions I had with them. They encouraged me to stay in school and finish my degree but felt that learning the job first through enlisted experience, would make one a better leader down the road.

I also don't mean to insinuate that an officer with prior enlisted experience has free reign to do what he pleases, regardless of the direction of his NCOs and SNCOs. I fully realize it is not the 1st Lt but rather the SNCO who runs a team. We were often told a saying in ROTC that went something like: The road to Hell is paved white with the bones of LTs who did not follow the direction of their NCOs.

VT I modified my original post...I was a bit harsh for no real reason and I apologize for that. I know what you mean by fun...perhaps "the action" stuff is a better choice...but few enjoy sitting behind a desk taking care of administrivia...and it is indeed the danger and excitement that draws many to the jobs in SOF...and everyone knows the risks yet still put their lives on the line for this country and their team...no harm done.

Sounds like you're learning already...keep it up.

In response to SI's comment about prior enlisted CCTs needing to come to two Phase IIs:
In the last three years I can personally recount 5 enlisted CCTs that went to Phase II and 4 were selected on their first go-round. This is just what I can recall, my 2 cents.

I've worked 3 phase 2's and can say with confidence that the cadre running a P2 selection only care about one thing... are you the right guy (mentally, psychologically and physically) to lead CCT's and PJ's at a Special Tactics Squadron. Your commissioning source has nothing to do with whether or not you get selected... your personal attributes, qualities and what you bring to the table as a potential OFFICER have everything to do with whether or not you get selected. If you're already an enlisted CCT that tells them one thing; you can make it through the training and you're probably one tough SOB... doesn't mean you'll get picked up to be a STO. I know a few prior enlisted STO's who did P2 THREE times... and that sucks! Some get picked up right away; some take a few tries...
Bottom line... you know what you want to do so just go do it... screw what everyone else thinks... set your sights on whatever goal you have a do it... no one is standing in your way.

So guys, I've been trying to get a good grip on this subject but am still confused.

I just graduated college, not ROTC. If my career goal is STO, would it be better to enlist CCT and apply for OTS and STO later...or would I benefit more from applying to OTS first and cross-training. I ask because my OTS recruiter said that civilians cannot apply for STO and have to cross train from another officer position which seemed to contradict the application information on this site. Also, I did read something the Phase I and II but there doen't seem to be much info when I did a search for it, what exactly is the distinction in Phase I and II?

In addition to that, my recruiter also seemed to think the same thing for PJ/CRO as well as TACP/ALO. Just wondering if all this is correct

You cannot go to Phase II without being a member of the military. Your Recruitier is right about that. You can't select STO as a job before going to OTS unless you are already an enlisted member who has been selected for OTS and passed Phase I of STO selection. So you really don't have an option to select STO as a job right now.
If you accept a commission, you will serve your time in another AFSC and then apply for Phase I, as per the normal procedure. You submit a written application package to the STO selection board. They will let you know if you are invited to attend Phase II or not. See the Home Page of this site for details. If you pass Phase I, you get invited to Phase II. Phase II is a 5 day hands on evaluation of your leadership ability and your potential to be a STO. It is conducted at Hurlburt Field and administered by members of Special Tactics under the direction of a Lt Colonel or higher ranking STO. Again, see the Home page of this site for details.
I believe the same is true of CRO and ALO.
MC

Alright, well thank you Gard MC. That clears up a whole lot

Are current enlisted members of the ANG permitted to submit a Phase I package for an AD STO position, or do they fall under the "civilian" category and required to enlist with Active Duty prior to a Phase I submittal?

Thanks!

The only times that I am aware of it being done have been for guys from an ANG STS submitting their Phase I Package to their state and then attending Phase II. I don't see any reason that an Enlisted ANG members cannot submit an Phase I package and, if selected, attend Phase II. They would certainly need a "Conditional Release" from their ANG unit and I am not sure who would handle their transition from ANG to Active Duty. You would probably need to be picked up by Active Duty for OTS or in the process first, before they would consider letting you attend Phase II.
I'd contact the STO Recruiting Officer listed in the STO Phase I Package and see what he says.