hi i live around hurlburt AFB fl and have been training for about 2 years seriously for about year for combat control im currently in DEP. and have been told from a few different people that now if you wash out of the pipeline for any reason the air force doesn't reclass you they kick you out of the air force. was told this applied to entire air force, my recruiter said it doesn't apply to special tactics but ive been hearing different. if any one could clarify this for me would be very much appreciated.

a summary on what my recruiter has told me that if you wash out in the pipeline and there is no available jobs that you qualify for at the time you wash out, then yes you are separated. But as long as there is something available and you qualify for and your willing to take it they will re-class you. He said they want to re-class you, they don't want to wast the money they have already invested in you.

This is more of a speculation on my part from reading i have done but im guessing it may depend on why you wash out, ie you start having migraines im guessing your done, but im guess if you work your a#$ off and just don't make the cut they will probably try to get you another job. I'm also guessing if on week 1 or 2 you just hand in your stuff and say "i cant do it" they probably wont break their backs trying to re-class you. Also i hear you can get re-cycled also, but i dont know alot about it.

Not any 100% solid answers for you but its the best i can give you and its the answers i have accepted for the same question

Hopefully someone who has been there and experienced it first hand can give more info on it.

There is a letter being distributed here at medina to all non prior service trainees regarding this.

Basically states that the air force policy is separate the non hackers,
not reclass.

So don't quit.

This rumor was going around when i was at the 342nd as well. I quit a few months ago at atc (family issues) and i was reclassed, as were all the pjs and sere and eod (sowt wasnt there yet). I have a friend who quit during the pj indoc, reclassed to flight medicine failed and was then reclassed to fire fighter. this was 2 months ago so im sure their not kicking anyone out.

Hell even the red rope that was there was injured and had been there for a year and a half and hadnt been separated he was just waiting to reclass. but if you have been training seriously for 2 years you should have any issues and ill be jealous of you when you graduate ccs =D.

if you do washout or quit dont let it depress you. you just go be the best loadmaster/tmo/security forces or w/e they give you that you can be until you can retrain (unles you fail academicly at atc then i dont think you can retrain back.

thanks for the replies!! and from what im hearing its very recent that they are separating people from the air force and only people that ship after the date they decided to do start doing so. but also im hearing alot of only if you quit, not if you just dont make the cut. i feel as ATC would be the biggest problem for me i hear its a bitch of a tech school, i have a friend currently there at keesler. is it really thats hard and any advice to prep for that?

What I have read also discusses academic failure which differs from the self elimination from a selection/screening course. Consequently once you get past the prerequisite screening selection course into the required pipeline courses an academic failure can be a denial for reclassification.

My lack of access to all the applicable policy letters prevents me from giving a clearer answer. The best answer I can give is don't academically fail and hope reclassification into a desired or any AFSC will be an option.

It is true. If you wash out for any reason or quit - you are separated. Period. Paragraph.

Heard this from the recruiter - then had my uncle (who is a former PJ) call Lackland and they confirmed.

thanks for the info do you know what kind of discharge it would be, and if that would stop me from entering another branch of the military, just trying to figure out if i should pick another job like tacp or something else and cross train or to just go for it and hope for the best.

I was told it is an honorable discharge.

Should be an Entry-Level Discharge if they have less then 180 days service. The RE Code on his DD-214 should be a 1.

My son broke his leg in Basic and that's what he received, year later he is (re) enlisting for the same AFSC.

So if I'm discharged during the pipeline it would be possible for me to re enlist again? And if so how long would I have to wait?

What is the point of discharging rather than reclassifying people who don't make it through the pipeline? Seems to me like it would deter people away from entering the careerfield.

Idk why thy are doing that and from what I've been told it's the entire air force! And if I did fail the pipeline I would wanna goTACP so, an that's not too different to be a problem.

In current environment of 10% unemployment and choices being Air Force with minimal exposure to actual in the air or on the ground combat stress compared to the Army or Marines, I would venture the probability of reentering the Air Force after being separated is “low”.

The SIE is not accurately described by simple term of “quit”, it is actually changing volunteer status to perform certain duties to a “no-longer volunteer” status. Consequently, SIE mean classification into an AFSC that requires performance of military parachuting and combat diver duties is unlikely. TACP also has a student volunteer status requirement. If the career aircrew functional mangers choose to adhere to volunteer status to perform enlisted aircrew duties (which they have ignored since 1947) the SIE also means no longer volunteer to perform aircrew duties which pays a hazardous duty entitlement know as aircrew pay. So this describes some of the reclassification obstacles for somebody who SIE.

I can only address the Pararescue Indoc course as it is the Cadillac example of a long running successful screening and selecting process. The course is ten weeks long and has specification of nonacademic and academic performance standards that are adhered to. Consequently there are many potential reasons a student may find themselves involuntarily eliminated from training and the opportunity to reclassify depend on if the cause was within the students control or not. IMO “only” the probability of reclassification is likely for a nonacademic functional fitness reason as long as it's not a discovered medical condition that is incompatible with performing military duties.

It is also my opinion, nothing ventured results in nothing gained. Emotional stability and conscientiousness are important factors for successful military job performance (Salgado, 1998). There is no dispute, it is unquestionable a major component of successfully performing pararescue duties is the ability to adapt to mission stressors. This includes missions for both wartime and peacetime. Psychological adaptation is therefore a critical mental health component for military personnel performing Pararescue and CCT duties. So the option is try or try-not. A try that results in failure rather than success will at least bring with it the satisfaction of having the courage to try.

So what's the real deal on this? I'm non prior service, so I'm not going to go through all my pre training just to get thrown out of the air force if I'm not part of the 5% that makes it.

That attitude right there, the lack of guts to even try, is why you won't make it. What's the difference? You would try as long as you have the safety net of knowing you can still join the regular Air Force when you quit, so why not give CCT a whirl?

The guys that make it don't even consider their alternatives. Sure it crosses everyone's mind but they don't pay serious attention to it; they are going to be Combat Controllers from Day One. That is their life. Even if they get hurt, something medical comes up, they will be back. And where are you getting these numbers from, "5%"? I've never heard or seen anyone publish numbers or percentages of those that make it versus those that don't.

If anything the threat of being separated should be motivation for you to stick with the job, stay in the pipeline and gut it out. For those out there that take this rumor or whatever it is as a negative and a reason to not even try, well then I guess I just have to say thank you for not wasting a slot that could go to a more deserving candidate.

What amount of pre training? There are no enlistment standards for physical fitness. There is however a limited few military occupations that require applicants meet or exceed a minimum PAST standard consisting of several core components, including cardiorespiratory endurance (aerobic fitness), muscular strength, muscular endurance, flexibility, and body composition. Pertinent the average level of fitness in the general population of 18-26 year olds has declined 10% since 1966. The most difficult PAST requirement existing in the Air Force is nothing more than the 1955 Boy Scout physical fitness test requirement to earn the physically fit merit badge. The PAST is used to screen out those having the highest expected attrition rates during training and immediately after award of AFSC for failure to sustain the physical fitness of the average teenager in 1955.

A look of Pararecue policies in-place since 1947 will reveal a physical fitness qualification standard and annual testing to this standard has existed since 1947. For Pararescue the standard has always been: (1) any pararescueman who fails to meet these physical fitness standards will not perform pararescue duty (training or operational) except physical fitness training until he is capable of meeting the set forth physical fitness standards; and (2) those individuals who continue to be substandard sixty days after initial test failure will be considered unfit for pararescue duty and will be involuntarily reclassified or administratively separated.

Prior to the Pararescue Specialty introducing the first PAST standard there was the average attrition rate due to injury in getting trained or the lack of required fitness impairing the capability to learn required aptitudes and abilities. Prior to the PAST, the high attrition was distributed throughout the first and second year of enlistment and not only was the attrition rate of those arriving at first operational unit of assignment high, the unit’s capacity to perform mission tasking was impaired by both new PJs lacking fitness needed to reduce operational risks, but also by attitudes of unwillingness to participate in doing both proficiency training and missions.

The expectation of the PAST as prerequisite for a GTEP enlistment contract and making classification 100% GTEP dependent is a downward adjustment of applicants enlisted because the attrition happens before the applicant lacking proper characteristics is identified before the Air Force spends the money to enlist and train them.

The subsequent PAST after BMT at Indoc combined with the other fitness training encountered is to prepare the applicant to get trained and to reduce injury risks during training. At one time it was Indoctrination and screening selection, now indoc is just Indoc as the emphasis is less on screening and more on developing the motivation attitude for obtaining and sustaining the level of physical fitness needed to perform Pararescue duties during the enlistment and perhaps a many enlistment career performing pararescue duties.

The PAST and other requirement are about the nature and characteristics of the man needed to survive and succeed the nature of the tasks and duties being expected to be performed and not about me for me.

Yukon,

"What amount of pre training? There are no enlistment standards for physical fitness. There is however a limited few military occupations that require applicants meet or exceed a minimum PAST standard consisting of several core components, including cardiorespiratory endurance (aerobic fitness), muscular strength, muscular endurance, flexibility, and body composition. Pertinent the average level of fitness in the general population of 18-26 year olds has declined 10% since 1966. The most difficult PAST requirement existing in the Air Force is nothing more than the 1955 Boy Scout physical fitness test requirement to earn the physically fit merit badge. The PAST is used to screen out those having the highest expected attrition rates during training and immediately after award of AFSC for failure to sustain the physical fitness of the average teenager in 1955."

Despite any differing opinions we may have Yukon, that paragraph made me laugh! Especially the last two sentences. It is so, so true.

Sorry misread what you posted the first time, but what's wrong with having a safety net? I want to be in the air force and if for some reason I didn't make it in CCT I would like to still be able to have a career in the air force.

BTW, I read somewhere that only 5% of those who go for CCT make it, don't know how credible but I've seen that percentage a few times. Also, the pre training I was referring to is just getting to where I can pass the PAST with flying colors and also be ready for the physical challenges of the pipeline.