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#45938 - Wed May 07 2008 13:23 PM
? about depth perception
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New Member
Registered: Sun Apr 20 2008
Posts: 27
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At meps I got a class 3 flight physical. I did well on everything, but unfortunately I failed the depth perception test. So now it says that CCT is unavailable to me. PJ still is, but not CCT (i'm assuming because ATC is not as well). Anyways, is there anyway I can retake the depth perception test, or am I stuck with not being able to give it a shot?
Thanks
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#45940 - Wed May 07 2008 13:35 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Feb 05 2008
Posts: 16
Loc: Louisville, KY STS
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I failed the first time. They allowed me to retake and I passed. It can be a tough test, but you have to be very patient and do not allow the MEPS nurse to rush you.
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." - African Proverb
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#45941 - Wed May 07 2008 13:45 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: dlg]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Jul 27 2007
Posts: 51
Loc: Iowa
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I failed the depth perception test and I got a CCT contract. I questioned my recruiter about this because I thought that would disqualify me. He told me that the rules have changed and failure of depth perception is no longer a DQ. His commander confirmed this. He said it changed about 6 months ago. Now I guess he could be wrong and I will be in for a rude awakening shortly, but like I said I have a CCT contract.
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#45942 - Wed May 07 2008 14:18 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Sacks]
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New Member
Registered: Sun Apr 20 2008
Posts: 27
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Well hopefully they either let me still get the contract, or let me re-take the test. If not I will still go for PJ, but the emt section during pipeline kind of makes me nervous haha. I know I can deal with it, but it may be difficult at first.
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#45944 - Wed May 07 2008 14:34 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Jul 27 2007
Posts: 51
Loc: Iowa
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If someone that knows anything about this could chime in it would be very appreciated. I have been kind of nervous that something may have been over looked and this will come back to bite me in the butt.
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#45947 - Wed May 07 2008 15:44 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Sun Apr 20 2008
Posts: 27
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Thank you very much for your quick response, and for clearing that up for me. It is much appreciated!
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#49792 - Tue Mar 24 2009 12:24 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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Operator
Registered: Fri Oct 17 2008
Posts: 159
Loc: Fort Walton Beach, Fl
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TE, Can you provide a reference for this that I can show the flight surgeon in case he isn't aware? My flight physical is coming up, and I'm a little worried about DP.
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#49811 - Wed Mar 25 2009 10:03 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TheRoad64]
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New Member
Registered: Sun Feb 01 2009
Posts: 26
Loc: Eglin
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Will, i emailed you the CCT fact sheet that states no depth perception req.
if anyone else needs this pm me an email address.
Edited by sparky13r (Wed Mar 25 2009 10:04 AM)
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#49812 - Wed Mar 25 2009 12:03 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: sparky13r]
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Operator
Registered: Fri Oct 17 2008
Posts: 159
Loc: Fort Walton Beach, Fl
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I have a feeling a fact sheet I print off of ST.com is not going to be enough for the flight surgeon, since many folks I know are getting tested on DP for their Class III.
EDIT: I found the AFI, 48-123 Vol 3, dated 5 June 06. States CCT is required to have functional depth perception for their duties as a scanner.
Edited by TheRoad64 (Wed Mar 25 2009 12:16 PM)
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#50563 - Wed Jun 03 2009 14:08 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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I just enlisted today and they said that Depth Perception was no longer required for Combat Control. My recruiter is going to submit my PAST results and book me for CCT. I knew I had failed Depth Perception and I read this thread saying it was required. Needless to say, I was definitely stressing out about whether I would be able to book a CCT job. I even bought a "Magic Eye" book and spent some time with it incase I should have to try and retake the test.
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#50570 - Wed Jun 03 2009 21:21 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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Hmm... I haven't seen CCT on an offical contract yet, so hopefully I am not being set up for major disappointment.
Apparently, the last thing I still need to go through is a phone interview with a Combat Controller early next week. I'll post an update after that.
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#50683 - Mon Jun 15 2009 16:27 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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My recruiter booked me for Combat Control finally. My ship date for basic is November 24th 2009. 5 months seems like a long time right now, but I've waited this long through the process...
I am still a bit nervous about this miscommunication regarding the depth perception requirement. My recruiter and my recruiter's boss have both confirmed that depth perception is no longer required. They said that it is a new change and all the old documentation still lists it as a requirement, even though it isn't anymore.
Do you recommend a course of action on my part? Should I ask to see a draft of my final contract? When can I breathe easy knowing my CCT slot is secure?
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#50684 - Mon Jun 15 2009 17:12 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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PJ/Operator/Admin/RKC
  
Registered: Thu Oct 17 2002
Posts: 3597
Loc: Nellis
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This is what I received from the AETC Surgeon General, via the PJ Functional Manager:
In general, the following types of eye surgeries are waiverable on a case by case evaluation after 12 months of post-op without complications:
PRK, LASEK, Epi-LASEK, WFG-PRK, LASIK, WFG-LASIK,
The following vision requirements are generally not waiverable:
Myopia < -8.00
Hyperopia < +0.50
Astigmatism < 3.00
Anisometropia < 2.50
Uncorrected Vision Far 20/200
Corrected to 20/20
Uncorrected Near Vision 20/50
Corrected to 20/20
Normal Color Vision
Normal Depth Perception
AFI 48-123 Vol 3, Chap 1.3 AFI 48-123 Vol 2, Atch 2 AFI Vol 3, Atch 5 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.6, 5.8
I would ask your recruiter and his boss where they are getting their information, as it appears it is different from AETC and both the CCT functional manager and PJ functional manager. Additional confirmation that DP is required comes from the Special Tactics recruiting liaison.
_________________________
TE Pararescueman/Webmaster/Administrator/RKC The real test comes when all strength has fled, and men must produce victory on will alone...
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#50685 - Mon Jun 15 2009 20:39 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Mon Mar 13 2006
Posts: 46
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Dang TE sounds like I should just go to a AF recruiter or just put the package in anyways.
_________________________
Team FORREST
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#50699 - Wed Jun 17 2009 07:30 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TheRedBaron]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Nov 21 2008
Posts: 2
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I had failed my original depth perception test at meps then found a local eye doctor that performed vision therapy. VT is kind of expensive if you don't have vision insurance but if you want to improve your depth perception it can really help. During my class III I passed the depth perception with flying colors.
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#50704 - Wed Jun 17 2009 10:30 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: strader01]
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New Member
Registered: Mon Mar 13 2006
Posts: 46
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Yea i looked into Vision Therapy but unfortunately the AF doesnt cover that or offer it. Its 4 grand.
_________________________
Team FORREST
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#50731 - Thu Jun 18 2009 17:39 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TheRedBaron]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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Ok, I asked my recruiter and here is the documentation I was given supposedly showing that depth perception isn't required. I can't really make heads or tails of it though. ============================== Thu Jun 18 14:10:15PM 2009 PERSONAL DATA - PRIVACY ACT OF 1974 (USC 552a) J O B B A N K P R E R E Q U I S I T E S EAA: G43 JOB AFSC: -1C231 JOB NAME: -1C231.USAF.EM.CLASS.1 EDUCATION LEVEL ALGEBRA N ACROPHOBIA N NO PEACE CORPS N TRIGONOMETRY N CLAUSTROPHOBIA N VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE N GEOMETRY N ENTOMOPHOBIA N BIOLOGY N FEAR OF BLOOD N MINIMUM HEIGHT 64 PHYSICS N FEAR OF CONFINED SPACES N MINIMUM WEIGHT CHEMISTRY N FEAR OF FIRE N FINGERS ENGLISH N FEAR OF GUNS Y NO ALIEN STATUS Y TYPING N FEAR OF HEIGHTS N SENSITIVE JOB CODE B PYROPHOBIA N
SPECIAL QUALS REQ'D DEPTH OVER 17 YEARS OLD 00 SPECIAL TESTS / SCORE COLOR VISION Y COMBAT EXCLUSION AFSC M 1 EDPT 000 CORRECTABLE ALLOWED 2 DLAB RQMT AIDED VISUAL ACTIVITY 0 PHYSICAL TYPE N UNAIDED VISUAL ACTIVITY 0 P MAJ OFFENSE CONV VISION CORRECTION TYPE 0 V THEFT CONVICTION SOFT CONTACTS WITHOUT PROBLEMS NON MINOR CONVICTION CORR DISTANT VISION LEFT 20 P U L H E S X CIV COURT CONFINEMENT CORR DISTANT VISION RIGHT 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 K CORR NEAR VISION LEFT 20 CORR NEAR VISION RIGHT 20 SPEECH IMPEDIMENT Y APTITUDE AREA: G UNCORR DISTANT VISION LEFT 200 SPEECH ABILITY 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 44 UNCORR DISTANT VISION RIGHT 100 EMOTIONAL INSTABILITY Y AQE INDICATOR: 0 UNCORR NEAR VISION LEFT 0 TMJ DISORDER UNCORR NEAR VISION RIGHT 0 'N' MEANS ITEM DOES NOT APPLY 'Y' MEANS ITEM IS A REQUIREMENT OR A DISQUALIFYING FACTOR ALL OTHER ENTRIES ARE MINIMUM REQUIRED VALUES ROPRM4 - PAGE: 1 OF 1 -
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#50732 - Thu Jun 18 2009 22:36 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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New Member
Registered: Thu Feb 07 2008
Posts: 96
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I'll be dealing with the DP and Class III on Monday. I guess all I can do is pay attention to what I am supposed to do, and take my time. I never had a problem catching a baseball, or predicting where a thrown object was going...hopefully the test isn't difficult if you never had one in a while. Last time my eyes were checked was about 8 years ago, and they never changed...think I have 20/40. Can't be any worse than that.
I'll post whatever information they tell me and give me to help you all out but it looks like you have it pretty much covered.
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#50737 - Fri Jun 19 2009 10:42 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Thu Feb 07 2008
Posts: 96
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So your can get the job contract, but will they come back after you and make you take DP? Or just a few "lucky" guys got in at the right time...?
Thanks for the update TE.
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#50743 - Sat Jun 20 2009 00:43 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Thu Feb 07 2008
Posts: 96
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Thanks for the insight TE, and for taking the time to find out what you did. When I get done with the Class III, I'll try to shed some light for those worried about the testing...if it doesn't violate anything. I know there were older documents to use as examples, but as for as what tools are used and how the testing is conducted I think a lot of guys who have some time to wait before they can go get their CIII's are curious what all is involved.
Thanks again.
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#50752 - Sun Jun 21 2009 18:18 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Bsjkg87]
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Operator
Registered: Fri Oct 17 2008
Posts: 159
Loc: Fort Walton Beach, Fl
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I was worried about it, but took it the other day by requesting it at the med group. Take your time. I stared at stereograms in an attempt to train my eyes to recognize it. Not sure if it helped, but I failed DP in MEPS, and blew it away the other day.
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#50763 - Tue Jun 23 2009 10:29 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TheRoad64]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Nov 21 2008
Posts: 2
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$4000? That's crazy. You should try looking around. The vision therapy place I went to charged $100 per visit. For Me it took about 16 visits. You can probably get it done in less visits if cost is a deal breaker. I would not start of with sterograms if you have poor depth perception. In VT the will probably start you off with something called a lifesaver chart. It's all about training your eyes to work together.
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#50765 - Tue Jun 23 2009 11:41 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: strader01]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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So after talking with my recuiter, it sounds like the rules that the Functional are looking at, and the rules regarding recruitment are somehow different. Due to this difference, I lucked out and was able to get a CCT slot despite failing DP at MEPS. It also appears that if the regs are changed now, my slot will be 'grandfathered' in.
The one concern is that I might get tested again on DP during my flight physical. Just so I know when to expect it: When during the pipeline do Combat Control Trainees get tested for their class III flight physicals?
Also; TheRoad64, you said you stared at stereograms to help you. What kind were you looking at? Are those the same thing as the 'Magic Eye'designs?
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#51608 - Fri Sep 25 2009 15:00 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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New Member
Registered: Mon Mar 13 2006
Posts: 46
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Had a few Vision Therapy sessions and was able to pass the Depth perception test. Now just waiting on the rest of the FCIII
_________________________
Team FORREST
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#51609 - Fri Sep 25 2009 17:45 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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Operator
Registered: Fri Oct 17 2008
Posts: 159
Loc: Fort Walton Beach, Fl
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So after talking with my recuiter, it sounds like the rules that the Functional are looking at, and the rules regarding recruitment are somehow different. Due to this difference, I lucked out and was able to get a CCT slot despite failing DP at MEPS. It also appears that if the regs are changed now, my slot will be 'grandfathered' in.
The one concern is that I might get tested again on DP during my flight physical. Just so I know when to expect it: When during the pipeline do Combat Control Trainees get tested for their class III flight physicals?
Also; TheRoad64, you said you stared at stereograms to help you. What kind were you looking at? Are those the same thing as the 'Magic Eye'designs? These. http://www.eyetricks.com/3dstereo.htmI don't know that they worked. But I passed DP 
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#51616 - Sat Sep 26 2009 09:54 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TheRoad64]
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Operator
Registered: Mon Jun 27 2005
Posts: 86
Loc: North Carolina
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DP will probably be tested at least two more times: once in basic for your physical there, and again at STTS (AST) when you get your class III.
_________________________
Bosco
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#51662 - Thu Oct 01 2009 16:55 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Bosco]
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New Member
Registered: Thu May 28 2009
Posts: 4
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Have they changed it back to DP is required to go CCT? Or can you still get in with failing it at MEPS?
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#51989 - Mon Nov 02 2009 20:13 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Oct 02 2009
Posts: 17
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The guidance in the system now will soon be updated to reflect the DP requirement. Im confused, I dont see the point in being able to get a GTEP CCT contract right now but then when you get to basic and re-take the DP test and fail, you have to pick another job?
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#52020 - Thu Nov 05 2009 11:41 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Guard MC]
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New Member
Registered: Fri Oct 02 2009
Posts: 17
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It is just a loop hole that will soon close. You are correct, there is no point in getting a GTEP slot when you don't meet the standard. On the other hand, if you have a GTEP slot and fail at BMT, it is more incentive for the USAF to send you to an Air Force Optometrist to see if you pass other depth perception tests. I am one of the people that got a GTEP but failed DP, the meps recruiter told me DP is only required for PJ. I ship Dec 28, I know that i have depth perception i played baseball for years. The doctors at meps told me the DP test at basic is alot easier than the bogus one they have at meps, so we'll see.
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#52423 - Sun Dec 20 2009 10:55 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Brettk]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Sep 10 2005
Posts: 28
Loc: Hurlburt Field
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The Doctors are somewhat correct. I failed the DP test at MEPS, but when I got my Flight III physical during second week of basic I passed it. The test is pretty much the same, only the machine isn't as beat up and they don't try and rush you so much. I just took my time and got it right, the magic eye books I spent a couple weeks looking at between MEPS and BMT might have helped. Just know that you WILL have to pass it during BMT. One member of my flight did not, even after several attempts, and got reclassed.
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#52574 - Sun Jan 10 2010 18:09 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Keihas]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Aug 20 2005
Posts: 11
Loc: Macdill AFB, Tampa, Fl
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How is PJ's get a by on depth perception from a flight physical?
Let me explain why I ask this question.
I'm the Air NCO for my squadron JCSE, at Macdill AFB. Were an Airborne Unit. I have a jumper that just got DNIF'd because he didn't pass the Depth Perception test.
We are just Air Force Comm guys, and the lowest form of jumpers. Were nobody special and follow Field Manual 3-21.220. as the joke goes. "how do you spell joint? A.R.M.Y."
If there is a way to get PJ's a classIII Flight Physical with out depth Perception. Can somebody tell me how that is, So I can get my Jumper back on Status?
I know this is a lil off topic. But this particular jumper was wanting to go PJ but believes all doors are closed now? any help would be much appreciated.
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#52593 - Tue Jan 12 2010 19:57 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Yukon]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Aug 20 2005
Posts: 11
Loc: Macdill AFB, Tampa, Fl
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Yukon, Thanks for the reply.
Not gonna lie, first time I read your post I almost felt like telling my guy he had a brain tumor... But I understand that the failure can be caused by many things, and we need to figure out what it is. Like my paratooper said jokingly about static line jumping "its not like im gonna miss the ground, It'll find me". Hopefully we can get him fixed or waivered. Get him jumping again and reopen some doors for his future.
Thanks again.
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#52595 - Wed Jan 13 2010 07:57 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: DantheGuy]
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Operator
   
Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 927
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
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I've been doing considerable resarch on the Depth Perception test and requirement. I've asked some specific questions to functionals through TE and have not gotten any answers yet. However: AFPAM48-133 PHYSICIAL EXAMINATION TECHNIQUES, Table 10.1, item 33:
Failure on initial screening requires a full optometry or ophthalmology evaluation, to include: ductions, versions, cover test and alternate cover test in primary and six cardinal positions of gaze, AO Vectograph Stereopsis Test at six meters, AO Suppression Test at six meters, Randot Stereopsis Test, and 4 Diopter Base out Prism Test at six meters. These tests are designed to identify motility disorders, particularly microtropias and monofixation.
New failure of screening when previously passed requires optometry or ophthalmology evaluation to rule out correctable causes, such as refractive error, anisometropia, or macular disease. If member has previously failed VTA-ND and passed the near stereopsis test (DPA-V or Randot), no further work-up is required. Note also this pamphlet also discloses "10.1.3.7. G = Initial CCT/PJ (FCIII + Marine Diving Duty)" which clearly and concisely indicates PJ and CCT get the exact same medical examination. The other info I provided was from other sources which included an article published by a AETC/SG flight surgeon who did approvals for initial flyer class exams at AETC. That article however focused mostly on FCIII and FCII Depth perception requirements and not specifically PJ and CCT which is why I asked some questions myself.
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#52840 - Sun Feb 07 2010 06:16 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Bsjkg87]
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New Member
Registered: Sat Jan 09 2010
Posts: 2
Loc: Oklahoma
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I understand this has been circulating for some time. Base on AFIs and MILPDS which recruiting using to book jobs. Color Vision is needed, Depth Perception not needed for PJ,CCT. Based on the Medical Regulation in the class 3 flight physical requirements is also not needed. However, to get JTAC certified it is needed. Trust me, we have been working this issue for the last several months to get clarified on this issue.
_________________________
Mark E. Terry 349 RCS/RST 405-274-9990
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#52841 - Sun Feb 07 2010 08:27 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: 349RCS]
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Operator
   
Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 927
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
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Best improve your reading comprehension and research skills. I can find nothing that differs the PJ/CTT requirement of "defective depth perception is disqualifying" from "is considered disqualifying if the failure occurs with best corrected visual acuity regardless of level of uncorrected visual acuity." The requirement for PJ CTT is to pass Depth perception test without or with corrective (glasses/contacts) accuity and have at or better than 20/70 uncorrected vision, correctable to 20/20 each eye. 1. There is nothing that distinguishes the mandatory Depth Perception requirement of normal depth perception needed to perform JTAC duties from the normal depth perception needed to perform CCT or Pararescue duties other than CCT and PJ are an occupation classification to reserve or book a job against. 2. Not all TACP, ALOs, CCT, STO members obtain and sustain JTAC qualifications and perform JTAC duties. 3. The experience and skill level requirements for eligibility to attend the JTAC qualification course distinctly and clearly states enlisted must possess 5-skill level in specific Air Force specialties of 1C2X1 or 1C4X1 and possess 1 year operational experience. 4. JTAC is nothing that concerns Air Force recruiters as it is not an enlisted or officer occupation classification to reserve or book a job against, so I don't know how or why JTAC duties was introduced into the conversation. Reference: AFI13-112V1, 15 FEBRUARY 2008, JOINT TERMINAL ATTACK CONTROLLER (JTAC) TRAINING PROGRAM , Table 1. 1 - Personnel Authorized to Perform JTAC Duties:
Individuals who lack normal color vision or depth perception IAW AFI 48-123, Medical Examinations and Standards. AND Reference: AFI 48-123, 24 September 2009, Medical Examinations and Standards
6.46.7. Depth Perception. No standard except for career fields below:
6.46.7.1. Tactical Air Control Party (1C4X1), Air Liaison Officer (13LX). Failure of either the Vision Test Apparatus (VTA-DP), or its newer replacement, the OVT is considered disqualifying if the failure occurs with best corrected visual acuity regardless of level of uncorrected visual acuity.
6.46.7.2. Failure of the VTA or OVT stereopsis testing requires completion of a local preliminary ocular motility and macular examination by an ophthalmologist or optometrist, and review by both AETC and the ACS. The testing must be accomplished as listed in 6.44.11.1.1 ... Section 6I— Ground Based Aircraft Controller 6.46. Ground Based Aircraft Controller Medical Standards. The standards in Section 6I apply to all ground based aircraft controllers which includes air traffic controller, weapons controllers/directors, combat controllers and Aerospace Control and Warning Systems (1C5X1), Tactical Air Control Party (1C4X1), Air Liaison Officer (13LX) and UAS sensor operators (1UOX1). Conditions in Chapter 5, Continued Military Service (Retention Standards) also apply. For conditions listed in Chapter 5, ensure an MEB has been performed and final disposition made prior to submission of a waiver request. Combat Controllers must meet the FC III requirements in Section 6G and the parachute duty requirements in Section 6K (6.48.2.) Air Battle Managers, Air Weapons Controllers/Directors, and Airborne sensor operators required to perform frequent and regular aerial flights must also meet Flying Class III standards in Section 6G. Pararescuemen must also meet standards in Section 6K. The medical conditions listed in Chapter 5, Section 6G and Section 6K are cause to reject an examinee for initial controller duty or continued duty unless a waiver is granted. Acute medical problems, injuries, or their appropriate therapy are cause for withholding certification of initial training or temporarily restricting the individual from controller duties until the problem is resolved. These standards are not all inclusive, and other diseases, or defects, can be cause for rejection based upon the medical judgment of the examining flight surgeon. Acute conditions which impair safe and effective performance of duty are cause for temporary removal from controlling duties using AF Form 1042, Medical Recommendation for Flying or Special Operational Duty, IAW Section 6C. Note: These standards do not apply to: Small unmanned aircraft systems operators (SUAS-Os). (See Section 6K 6.48.11.). ... 6.48.4. Marine Diving Duty (Pararescue and Combat Control Duty). ... 6.48.4.1. The following conditions are disqualifying: ... 6.48.4.2. Defective Depth Perception. AND Reference AFPAM 48-133, 1 June 2000, Physical Exam Techniques:
Identifies the following legends (and others) pertinent to this discussion as to what examination item has a mandatory required entry item to be completed. 10.1.3.3. C = Initial Flying Class I/IA, II, III/US Service Academies 10.1.3.4. D = Periodic Flying/Nonflying (Personnel reporting to UFT and ARC members only IAW AFI 48-123) 10.1.3.6. F = Initial Ground Based Controller Duty 10.1.3.7. G = Initial CCT/PJ (FCIII + Marine Diving Duty)
Table 10.1. Medical Examination Accomplishment and Recording Standard Form 88, Report of Medical Examination item 34 identifies C, D, F, G must have a depth perception test recorded. Unfortunately AFPAM 48-133 and AFI 48-123 do not identify a normal depth perception standard other than passing with correction once a full optometry or ophthalmology evaluation has been done is a pass. The depth perception test "Pass" standard without correction or with correction is the same for C, D, F, G. Nobody at AETC/SG or other MAJCOM SG has provided me any documentation or opinion that asserts, suggests, infers, or implies otherwise. Also note: Reference AFECD, 31 January 2010, TACTICAL AIR CONTROL PARTY (TACP)(Effective 28 Sep 09):
3.5.2. For entry, award and retention of AFSCs 1C411/31/51/71/91/00:
3.5.2.1 Compliance with the medical standards for Ground Based Controller Duty as defined in AFI 48-123, Medical Examinations and Standards. ... 3.5.3.1. For personnel certified as a JTAC, regardless of skill level, permanent JTAC decertification IAW AFI 13-112, Volume 2, will result in removal from the 1C4XX AFSC.
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#53737 - Thu Apr 15 2010 08:23 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Apr 13 2010
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
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Sorry for asking but you are saying depth perception is no longer a requirement for cct? If this is true I am ecstatic as I thought I was screwed being that I have about 75% of my depth perception and was real down looking for waivers or other oppurtunities.
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#53739 - Thu Apr 15 2010 08:51 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: TE]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Apr 13 2010
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
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Outstanding you have made my day and thanks for the quick response. This board is great for getting to the bottom of things with all the information that is out there you really help to sift through it.
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#53747 - Thu Apr 15 2010 13:28 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: usmcCCTwnb]
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Operator
   
Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 927
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
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Sorry for asking but you are saying depth perception is no longer a requirement for cct? If this is true I am ecstatic as I thought I was screwed being that I have about 75% of my depth perception and was real down looking for waivers or other oppurtunities. Even people totally blind in one eye with good vision in the remaining eye can have adequate depth perception. The pass/fail depth perception test used by DOD has never measured adequate ability for performing any AFSC specific duties or tasks, its purpose has always focused on abnormal depth perception is a potential symptom of other possible disqualifying medical conditions that must be tested for and ruled out. ...DP is no longer a requirement for CCT...you will of course be tested on it though. Consequently although normal Depth Perception is no longer required (the impairment base-line for performing duties and specific tasks has never been established for depth perception) it appears the DP test is still administered and a pass/fail of the test still exists. Consequently your disclosure of having only 75% of depth perception is useless information without the cause for this abnormal depth perception being disclosed. The 75% may provide adequate depth/distance perception ability, or not. However, if you are missing an eye or are totally blind in one eye, the medical disqualifier cause will be not meeting the visual acuity standard of 20/70 uncorrected vision, correctable to 20/20 each eye rather than abnormal depth perception. Depth perception ability becomes significantly inadequate with 20/20 to 20/40 in one eye and 20/200 or worse in the other eye. Depth perception deteriorates differently for each person’s acuity but the connection is included in the maximum vision acuity waiver standards- 20/100 both eyes corrected to 20/20, or 20/200 worse eye-20/70 better eye, corrected to 20/20 both eyes). Abnormal depth perception is not the same as lack of adequate depth/distance perception (reduced to the point it impairs ability to perform duties or required performance tasks). Failure of the Depth Perception test has never been a diagnosis of an impaired distance/depth discerning ability hindering or obstructing ability to perform, the DP test failure is nothing more than a possibility indicator a potential undiagnosed or developing asymptomatic condition or an intentionally being hidden from the medical examiner medical problem existing that must be ruled out.
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#53749 - Thu Apr 15 2010 15:10 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Yukon]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Apr 13 2010
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
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I have strabismus but I have 20/15 vision both eyes, I was worried about the depth perception mainly...but is strabismus a disqualifier as I am prior service Marine Corps Infantry and it is all documented with the DOD in my records? As always thankyou for the information!
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#53753 - Thu Apr 15 2010 16:38 PM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: Yukon]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Apr 13 2010
Posts: 6
Loc: Georgia
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Roger, well at least now I can continue to pursue it,I googled the definitions of those terms and of course I am no eyecare professional it seems these do not apply, I will bring a copy of this to my eye doctor next week to get a more detailed professional opinion as I know my condition will need to be reviewed as it was upon my first enlistment and a waiver was granted. My recruiter will not proceed any further with my paperwork as I have not yet recieved my DD214 due to separating very recently but hopefully this can be as simple as my first enlistment. Again I can not thank you and TE enough for your assistance with the info.
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#55398 - Thu Sep 09 2010 09:18 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Dec 29 2009
Posts: 25
Loc: Pipeline
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Received a phone call from Flight Medicine this morning an hour before my PAST test up here in Anchorage, Alaska. Well good news is that AETC received my IFC III and they have reviewed it. Bad news is that I am going to need a waiver for failing my Depth Perception. I stated earlier in one of my posts about depth perception not being a requirement for FY2010 1C2X1 but it is required per FCIII. FM said there is no reason why my waiver would get denied back up at AETC they just need some kind of record that it has been addressed. I really hope there is no problem with geting my waiver approved.
Deffinately the hardest part about cross training is your IFC III!!!
_________________________
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift" NFQ
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#55405 - Thu Sep 09 2010 11:38 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Aug 10 2010
Posts: 14
Loc: FE Warren AFB, WY
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good luck man.. i was sweating mad bullets when i took my depth perception test lol i had my head pressed up against that machine staring at those damn circles for about 20 minutes. anyway yeah my class III took about 4 months or so to complete? then again i had to call everyday to make sure these guys were doing their job which half the time they werent
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#55765 - Fri Oct 08 2010 10:19 AM
Re: ? about depth perception
[Re: enigmadsm]
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New Member
Registered: Tue Dec 29 2009
Posts: 25
Loc: Pipeline
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Well for the others that are still worried about DP for entry to CCT, heres an update about my case and story.
I got waivered by my local Flight Med clinic, They had then sent my waiver to the MAJCOM level (AETC). My waiver was approved for retraining into Combat Control with having defective DP later that day. Submitted my package in late September and found out 1 October that I was selected and approved for crosstraining.
Part II to my case and story...
I had posted early in this thread about why TACP has to have DP and CCT doesnt for entry into the career fields and eligibility for JTAC training... Well I am out TDY to Nellis AFB and our TDY hanger just happens to be right next to the USAF JTAC school. I went over yesterday and spoke to a MSgt who runs the course and I had ran the question by him about me being selected for retraining into CCT and that I didnt have depth perception and that I wanted to be cert'd and qual'd in JTAC duties but knew that TACP and CCT both go to that same course and was unsure if depth perception was needed or not because of the mandatory requirement of DP for TACP. He stated that if I was approved for retraining for CCT then I was approved additional duties as well.
So I guess the question remains then; If CCT and TACP both go to the same JTAC course then why does TACP have to have DP and CCT doesnt?
_________________________
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift" NFQ
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