I was curious as to why the CCT and Army SOF are calling for air support when there are trained TACP's attached to the SOF units?

TACPs are not ATCers<p>Plus, normally TACPs are attached to conventional units, not special forces.

Actually there are TACPs assigned to SOF and Ranger units. I don't know if you remember a freindly fire incident where a Navy F-18 dropped 500 pounders on the wrong outpost at the Udairi training range. Well those conducting the ground portion were the SF TACPs.

Due to instructions in, I believe, JPub 3-09.3, TACP's are not assigned to individual SOF Teams, rather they are assigned at Battilion or Company level's. Thats where CCT comes into play, we can be assigned to individual teams.<p>As far as the incident at Udairi Training Range, there were a lot of things that went wrong all at the same time. Being that there was also an A-FAC (Airborne Forward Air Controller, which was either an F-18/A or a Tomcat) calls get messed up by the A-FAC, friendly position passed incorrectly, the G-FAC not ensuring the inbound plane had positive friendly position in sight.

CCT--yeah you're right about the all the events at Udairi. I was just trying to use that as an example of the SOF TACPs. Not the best example I realize now, but it was the only thing that sprung to mind

Gentlemen,
usafcct is correct about our manning. We are normally located no lower than the company level, plus we are not a part of AFSOC and politics does play a factor. <p>About Udari,
Both of you are way off the mark. Tim and Jason were both friends of mine, so make sure you have your facts straight before you point fingers at the controller or question his ability. All SOPs were followed and friendly position was confirmed. Lead aircraft dropped without clearance, bottom line. If you would like the official report, I can e-mail it to you. If you just want the facts, drop me a line.

SH275, I apologize if I made it sound as if it was ALL the GFAC's fault; I know it wasn't.<p>However, I think you should be able to realize this, that even when all SOP's are followed; things happen.<p>I was in no way placing blame on a specific individual. "Murphy" just happen to step in at all the wrong places/times and hence the end result.

TACP's are attached to almost all echelons of the U.S. Army from squad a.k.a. (teams) all the way up to Divison and Corps level echelons. SOF TACP's at Fort Campbell's 5th Group Special Forces work extensively with their Army team counterparts. We even have TACP's attached to Ranger Units also at Benning and 82nd Airborne Division at Ft.Bragg. Most of them are just as high speed as the people that they support. However, more doors open when it comes to specialized training to include halo, pathfinder, Ranger schools for TACP who pass selection for SF and Ranger.

The problems the TACP community faces daily is the fact that we are so underfunded and always overlooked as even beeing a career field in the Air Force. We often find ourselves stuck between two branches of services. And both are hesitant to fund a hybrid group of AF members. Unlike you guys from CCT, which some TACP's call "glorified airmen" because of the spotlight you all get as the Air Force's answer to Navy Seals and Army Green Berets.

I'm not trying to put CCT down. What I'm trying to get at is that the "meat and potatoes" of the TACP is to control Close Air Support. Our ETAC's go through JFCC which is specialized training specifically for CAS. Just as CCT member go to ATC school. Unless you have gone to JFCC what everyone else does is control Emergency CAS or E-CAS. TACP's do their job and do it well but don't usually get as much recognition for it as others do or in our case not as much as what we would like to see.

Not arguing that TACP has done a good job in the past and continues to do so. I just want to clear up a couple things for you or anyone else who may not be clear on this issue. In each STS we have a fire support shop. Some are run by CCT guys and some are actually run by TACP guys. That shop ensures that all CCT guys remain current and qualified by running a consistant training program which consists of both practicals and academics. We also require our guys to go through JFCC and adhere to the same regs that E-tacs do. I say this because sometimes I get the feeling that sometimes the TACP community thinks we're out there just wingin' it cause we know how to talk on a radio. We take that training just as seriously as we do all our other core skills.
There's really more work out there than both communities combined can handle right now anyway. I think that STS does the SOF mission better than anyone else because of how we're organized, funded and selected. Not to mention that STS has alot of mission sets that go beyond CAS, and that after all is what makes SOF units SOF. TACP is stretched thin just like we are and I think they're best served taking care of the big conventional units and the rangers. There's always gonna be a gray area there as far as the SF groups are concerned because they're so big. I suspect we'll always end up sharing those missions that fall into that gray area.

Gentelmen, I'm not a TACP or CCT, but I've worked with both and think you guys have your S**t together.

Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys think think AFSOC should absorb the SOF TACP mission? Say do something similar to the way they actived the 10th CWS?

Roger that LD, thanks for clearing up some smoke. Ultimately the big picture is that we all have a purpose in the US armed services. Each of our career fields compliment the other on the battlefield. Each supporting our respective Army and Navy counterparts. Especially in that "gray area". I have alot of respect for STS and the mission that you do. CCT and PJ is highly touted and well respected in the Air Force. That is why as an prior TACP member I personally don't mind having to have lived in the shadow of Special Tactics. Roger Out!

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Impossibility is a challenge that can be overcomed by a driven will...

In the "two cents" dept.; SH275 is right about Udari. As a SOC guy whose neither STS or TACP, I've come to have a great appreciation for the professionalism and spirit of both outstanding groups. As the KCIA aerial port commander in Kuwait at the time, I had the distinctly sad duty of arranging the medevac flights and the one that took our fallen comrades home for the last time. Just as in Afghanistan, the PI, etc, a lot of very good men lost their lives that day. I'll tell you fellas, once you have to load the caskets onto the C-17, it doesn't really matter much whether they were CCT, PJ or TACP. Good men, all.