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#39142 - Fri Nov 24 2006 12:14 PM
Compartment Syndrome?
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New Member
Registered: Wed Apr 27 2005
Posts: 78
Loc: VA
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I've recently started stepping up my running program and I've run into a bit of a problem. About half-way through a moderate paced run (8:00/mi)...my muscles to the left and right of my shin bones start feeling really tight/full/swollen. The pain isn't quite so bad when I'm doing a Long-slow-distance run...or when i take a few days off from running completely. I've never had this before so I'm guessing this is one of those 'wear and tear, goes w/ the terrain' type problems. I've checked around online a bit and the symptoms sound like compartment syndrome...where the pain is in the muscles, whereas shin splints you tend to feel the pain in the actual shin-bone (as i understand). I've talked w/ a friend of mine too who thinks it may be a creatine buildup resulting from the 2 months i've been taking Nitrotech (he's had similar problems in the past and said going off the stuff definitely helped). I've got an appt w/ the doc to check it out...but I thought I'd get some ideas here first. So you kids out there in t.v. land got any?
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#39143 - Fri Nov 24 2006 13:20 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: travis757]
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Member
Registered: Wed Oct 05 2005
Posts: 154
Loc: New Mexico
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Google- Foam Roll and work some myofascial release on your shins...like get up on your knees and run the roll back and forth across your shins as well as on the back on the calf this should help to develop the tissue and hopefully help get rid of some of this pain. Good luck.
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#39144 - Fri Nov 24 2006 15:09 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: Keith68]
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Operator
   
Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1552
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
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Actually, shin splints pain is felt in the muscle too, it's just right on the bone so you think it is the bone. Sounds like you have upped your running too fast for your shin muscles to take it. Try this: Get in the sit up position-feet flat on ground, heels touching, toes streight forward, knees bent at about 90 degrees. Have a buddy apply resistance to your toes while you slowly pivot your toes upward, keeping your heel on the ground. Do this about 20 times for about 3 to 5 secs a rep. Next, keep your heels together but point your toes outward. Do another 10-20 reps. Next, point your toes together and rotate your heels out. Lift the toes another 10-20 times. If you have no buddy, you can do it using a light dumbell or weight for resistance. Another method is just to do toe tappers. Stand on one leg and lean over so the other foot is about an inch off the ground. Flex your ankle so the heel remains in the air and the toes tap the ground, then raise toes immediately. Repeat until the leg muscles burn a bit. Switch legs. Also, get some ice on those muscles before and after each run. I recommend getting some Dixie cups and filling them one third to one half full of water and putting them in the freezer. Before you run, just grab a cup, rip down to expose some ice and run the ice over the affected muscles for 3 or 4 mins. Do the same after the run. The exercises will strengthen the muscles to enable them to take the extra work. The ice will reduce inflamation and speed healing. Good luck.
_________________________
Guard MC
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#39147 - Fri Nov 24 2006 20:26 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: Guard MC]
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New Member
Registered: Thu Nov 16 2006
Posts: 10
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Agreed with guard for sure, I had feeling of "pressure" and "tenseness" in those muscles both times inthe past right before I endured a very bad case of shin splints. What worked for me was to ice with dixie cups as gaurd mentioned. also no speed work untill you pull out of this feeling...... LS runs are your friend now.... i also stopped running two days in a row..(started to run,rest,run,rest,...you can also incorporate walking into your runs..look up jeff galloways training tips about walking..) towell stetches(very lightly done) around your foot,leg straight
all of this helped for me, i have had alot of experience in what you describe, what ultimatly helped was a solid traing program, not increaseing too rapidly...ten percent every week
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#39148 - Fri Nov 24 2006 20:38 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: swimj]
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New Member
Registered: Sun Dec 26 2004
Posts: 77
Loc: Kentucky
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#39153 - Sat Nov 25 2006 06:36 AM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: JOE_BOO]
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New Member
Registered: Wed Apr 27 2005
Posts: 78
Loc: VA
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I appreciate all the help gentlemen...I'll be taking a look into all of these training ideas. Wish me luck at the doc's office!
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#39206 - Wed Nov 29 2006 11:09 AM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: Guard MC]
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New Member
Registered: Mon Jul 10 2006
Posts: 42
Loc: Spangdahlem AB
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shin splints pain is felt in the muscle too, it's just right on the bone so you think it is the bone.
The exercises will strengthen the muscles to enable them to take the extra work. The ice will reduce inflamation and speed healing. Good luck. Sir, I'm sorry for getting into this, but I believe that's not exactly true what you said Here are some of the possible causes of shin splints: * Stress factures of the tibia (shin bone) * Microfractures (can't be even visualised on x-ray) * Periostitis - bone surface inflammations * Poor circulation * Tendinitis One can't say, that if the bone hurts in shin splits it's only because we think it's the bone... The pain in the muscles is actually secondary in this problem, because we alter the stride while running and in pain and stress the muscles in an abnormal way... Besides it, for example, a stress fracture or microfracture does not come because our muscles are not strong enough. Please check out my replies in the post on tibial stress fractures. It is due to metabolic turnover in the bone itself which is provoked by increasing pressure - more resorption in the bone than build-up = that's a prescrption for a bony disaster. Next to it, we have the so called tibial compartment syndrome which means that the fascial compartments (sheats of connective tissue around the muscles and muscle groups) are too small to accommodate the increase in muscle mass that typically occurs with heavy exercise. The increased pressure within a small unyielding compartment limits circulation and subsequent muscle function. As you see, in this case it's definitely not going to help if the person tries to build-up stronger (=bigger, hypertrophic) muscles - it only makes the problem worse. By the way - this info comes from a very interesting article which was published in Military Medicine in 1999 - not available on line, but I will see in the library if I can scan a copy from the paper) So, Travis757 - you go off to the doc and let him determine what is wrong with your leg... In that article in Military Medicine the authors call upon military general medical officers and family physicians to REFER people with that kind of problems (if confirmed, when in doubt) to an orthopedic clinic. Self-medicating via Internet is not the best idea... And Gentlemen, I know you mean give the best advice you possibly can, but let's hear first what a doctor IN VIVO said to the person in question before we give any advice... Please remember that sometimes we can do more harm than good by giving wrong advice... (PRIMUM NON NOCERE - FIRST DO NO HARM) Please believe me that not every exertional pain results from being a "wimp" - sometimes it's our genetics... We can overcome lots of genetical limitations, but our approach must be based on logics, not on mythological beliefs... Regards, doc-to-be
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#39209 - Wed Nov 29 2006 18:03 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: doc4usaf]
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New Member
Registered: Wed Oct 27 2004
Posts: 31
Loc: Grand Forks AFB
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I'm not a doctor, but I have a competitive running history, and I've had my fair share of shin splints. I would be careful to dismiss what Guard MC said so quickly, because I think his advice was correct. The article you obtained your information from seems to address stress fractures which is a more serious problem. Stress fractures are not the same thing as shin splints. With a stress fracture, you'll generally have very localized pain in the shin bone. Shin splints on the other hand are very common, not that serious, and generally occur from progressing in a running program too quickly. A sudden increase in distance or intensity of your running plan can cause inflammation in the lower leg muscles (inflammation from injury to the tendons, tissue). This inflammation is what would cause pain on both shins (also, very rarely do you see someone with stress fractures on both legs). It's a sudden increase in muscle work, and those muscles just so happen to be the ones used to raise the foot. In that case, it would be to your benefit to strengthen those muscles as Guard MC said. Walking on your heels, lifting your toes against resistance, ice, and rest are all good - just as Guard MC said. You might want to go to a doc to make sure you don't have a stress fracture, but sounds like shin splints to me. I'm sorry I don't have the fancy jargon to back up my argument, but to those with extensive running backgrounds, this is pretty common stuff.
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#39213 - Wed Nov 29 2006 20:18 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: DM23]
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New Member
Registered: Mon Jul 10 2006
Posts: 42
Loc: Spangdahlem AB
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Sir, it's not about fancy words or ideas - it's about the fact THAT FOR THE TIME BEING WE DO NOT KNOW what Travis757 has.
Please do not misunderstand - I am not saying that he has a stress fracture or any serious injury - I have just pictured two seperate and potentially different scenario's which might require a different approach. I tried to explain that the term "shin splints" does not indicate a diagnosis. It's just a collective term for a group of injuries (from trivial to serious)... The thing is, that the root of the problem does not originate in the muscle itself. Plz know, that all the things mentioned above in my list can be at a level which is undetectable for any technical investigation - they are like a microtrigger of the problem. I believe I mentioned periostitis (inflammation of the "bone cover") and tedinitis, etc... Other problems of "shin splits" come as a chain reaction after that...
You speak yourself about inflammation from injury to tendons, so TENDINITIS (and this is just one of the things that can happen) - and you talk about stretching, resting (relaxing) and ice (anti-inflammatory), you speak about sudden increase in workload which is no good...
I also gave you an explanation of what tibial compartment syndrome is, and said why in this case it would not really help if the person builds up stronger, bigger muscles as a remedy to the problem... When your pants are too tight, you are not putting on weight and trying to fit better, right?
But coming back to the point of my message - I gave no advice, I just tried to explain some common misconceptions - not every pain in lower leg is a shin splint, and not every pain in lower leg can be solved by building-up stronger muscles...
I am just asking you not to advice people like TRAVIS757 before they come here with a diagnosis given by a medical professional after clinical examinationHis problem might be minor (I never said he has a serious injury), but he needs to know what his problem is. Once he got diagnosed, then you can surely share a whole load of personal experiences on a certain issue, since I am sure they might be all relevant, but let's wait till then, so we don't cause more problems than already present.
DM23, on personal note just to you - what you wrote implies that you did not understand my message. Couldn't you simply ask to explain better? I never implied that travis had a (bilateral) stress fracture - I just tried to explain the mechanism of injury in shin splints in general. You simply saw the expression "stress fracture" in my post, and God only knows what made you believe I implied that travis757 had a stress fracture. The fact that you have had a certain injury quite frequently does not make you an expert on it - first you will still see a doctor and not another runner if you get injured. Only as a second step, while already knowing what your problem is, you will ask fellow runners for advice if they had the same problem as you do. Does that sound logical to you?
And last but not least - I have read many other posts of Guard MC. Sir, I admired quite many of them. You are quite a mentor and certainly an experienced person in your field. I wouldn't even think of opposing your posts on military or training related issues. However, in this medical case I believe you jumped into conclusions a bit too soon, and that is why I got into this. I had absolutely no intention to offend you. If I did I am truly sorry. Please accept my apology.
d
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#39217 - Wed Nov 29 2006 21:05 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: doc4usaf]
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New Member
Registered: Wed Oct 27 2004
Posts: 31
Loc: Grand Forks AFB
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You're right in that I didn't understand your first message, but now that you've explained everything, I think we're on the same page. I don't consider myself to be an expert on shin splints because I've had them, but I do consider myself to be knowledgeable in sports injuries. Anyway, I think we're in agreement now. Thanks for your intelligent and well researched posts - I think they're a help to a lot of people.
Edited by DM23 (Wed Nov 29 2006 21:06 PM)
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#39287 - Tue Dec 05 2006 13:56 PM
Re: Compartment Syndrome?
[Re: Guard MC]
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New Member
Registered: Wed Apr 27 2005
Posts: 78
Loc: VA
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Well folks, just found out today it's not shin splints. Looks like it's on to the orthopedist to find out what they think. I have relaxed my running schedule a bit and taken the pace much slower. This seems to help though the pain does still pop up...usually towards to end of my runs now. Again, I appreciate everyone's help...I'll keep you all posted.
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