Are PJ's trained in any form of hand to hand combat? If so, what kind? Thanks....

-Luke

search for the answer

MIke

I've searched for the answer, both here, Google, and the Socnet forums. Came up dry on all 3. Also a reply from someone out of high school would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Luke

Luke, don't mind the lit' ones... There uses to be a good long thread on this topic.. however, I've searched the past 4 years for anything including "hand" and pulled up nothing. There was a point in time when a good portion of the forums were lost. I'm betting it went along with that.

From what I remember and know (and it isn't much, I'm no Op), but PJ/CCT can receive h2h combat training, but it would be at the unit level and can be in many different forms (and would only happen if the unit has $$ for it).

Not sure if TE knows any word on if the h2h training has come down to being standard, but that was something that was looked into years ago.

So this training would occur after pipeline, if at all?

hmmm...
http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthreads...=true#Post24875
http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthreads...=true#Post26424
http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthreads...=true#Post27177

Hope these help
And what does not graduating have to do with anything?

[]CCT/PJ/TACP they get hand to hand combat?

There is no mandatory requirement. It is possible some units have funded a contract with a trainer. Mostly, PJs & CCT seek out their own martial arts or self defense training.

Some CCT guys have been sent to the Marine Martial arts cousre in Quantico. Also throwing hand grenades is over rated, Ive thrown my fair share and let me tell you if you get a dud, you'll have to sit in that nice small concrete bunker for an hour or at least until EOD arrives, and chances are you'll be in there with some old range dude who'll talk your ear off about how much he hates his job (true story).[/]


MIke

I really have no skills to bring to the table when it comes to fighting. When I get through training I know that being able to fight is something I'm going to need. If and when I get into that combat situation I want to be as prepared as possible. Bottom line is I want to learn. I don't really trust an internet search to identify who the best teachers are so I was wondering if some of who could PM me (or post) the contact info for some good instructors. I'll be in the Hurlburt Field area in a couple of months so anyone within an hour radius of that would be great. Systema seems really well suited for what I'm going to do, but again I have no fight training to speak of so any good teacher of anyone of the arts will be great. Thank you for your help.

FM 3-25.150 (Combatives).pdf

find this on the internet or something

Read it and do it with friends, the beginning talks about how to teach it to others and how/when to do what.

Mike

The need for hand to hand skills (though not used often, it does happen) has been recognized. The idea of some hand to hand combat system based upon either SCARs (system the SEALs use and very effective) or the Marine LINES system (also very effective and more simple) or similar systems has been bantied about. We talked about including some limited instruction at the "Battlefield Airmen Course" but that may or may not happen. there is also an initiative being submitted to the Chief of Staff by a member of last years 12 Outstanding Airmen to include hand to hand combat in Air Force BMT. The AF has evolved from the Cold War fixed base force to an expeditionary force so the need is certainly greater than ever before. Getting the AF to adopt that much of a Warrior attitude and put it into practice will be the trick. At least it's being considered, ten years ago, it would not have been. Funny how a war can change things.

If they are going to add this training to BMT then now is the time. We are changing the Warrior Week Program and integrating it into every week of training. The new program is called "BEAST". Airmen wil be issued M-16s in the 1st week of training and will be taught less dorm crap and more combat skills. I have not heard of any hand-to-hand training. We just put the program together this past year so I am sure there will be a lot of things that will come and go in the beginning.

I am leaving for basic this time next year, is there any chance that these changes will take place by then?

Right now the planning phase has just ended and they are starting to get the equipment and build the new encampment. The MTIs that write the lesson plans are getting those together as well. I am unsure when it will be finally operational.

We were treated to a clinic by the Marine Martial Arts Instructors at AST. Personally, I thought it was ok and easy to learn. To what end this is going to be taught in the Group is unknown to me. I went through a SCARS clinic several years ago and learned a lot. Though many talk trash about it, I though rather highly of the teaching methodology and would love to go to a higher level clinic. (Wink <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> to Guard MC)

What up man? I just enlisted for PJ. Waiting for indoc slot still. But I did some UFC training at BJ Penns academy when i lived in Hawaii. MMA. Im no black belt, but i got the crap kicked out of me enough by the UFC guys to learn some good stuff. I dont know if your in yet, or what, but maybe we can meet up at Lackland if it lines up and ill show you some stuff.

I personally did not wait for the training to come to me and I went out and go it myself. I got my training in aikido. Although it took me 7 years to get my black belt I nonetheless got it done. Don't wait for the training to come to you go out and get it yourself. "WHATEVER IT TAKES!"

Ah, you lads have jogged my long-slumbering memories: Just a note regarding "hand to hand." There is a vast difference between "sport" martial arts and "life-and-death" disciplines. The Sport stuff looks impressive, but it's designed so that nobody really gets hurt. Years ago when we learned our skills, our instructors (U.S. Army Special Forces SFC our lead instructor) cautioned us that we were not learning the stuff taught in dojos across town. We didn't receive colored belts, we received confidence that if all else had collapsed, we at least had a chance to stay alive by using our hands, feet and most of all - our brains.

You definiately have gotten some bad intel on that one. Enough said.

I'm not trying to dispute anyone... H2H is a great skill to have and everyone I'm sure wants to master something like it... Here is my question though... When was the last time you heard of anyone using H2H combat while they were deployed? I mean, most fights end with a Rocket, gun, etc...
To me, hand to hand combat is more of a privalege or just something you shouldn't try focusing on getting. You should be worried about upgrade taining or perfect how you shoot.
Just my .02

Just realized i was replying to a comment posted a year ago... I dont know much about aikido. I trained BJJ and Mui Tai, but ive never been in combat so I cant say too much. Are you a PJ now Ssparks?

If you click on his name on the left, you'll see his bio says USAF PJ...also the operator means he's either a PJ, CCT, or Combat Weather guy...so yes, he is a PJ.

I didn't mean to make light of Ssparks' aikido training - especially his seven year commitment to earn a black belt. I didn't intend to lump all martial arts training together. I was speaking generally, and was referring to the "fly by night" schools that cropped up around our base that taught competition karate, promising that if you had a yellow belt or a brown belt, you'd be a cold-blooded killer. I know there's good stuff out there, I just meant to alert some of the young guys to be aware of the difference. No offense intended, 'Nuff said? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif" alt="" />

To get braging rights of a black belt, it takes years, $$$ and persistance. Most the schools are businesses in it for the money. Beware of contracts that will obligate you for years. They also may have a heavy fine to break the contract. There are a lot of programs around and the past students would probably be eager to teach. I got a few lessons at my unit under such circumstances. Free! Free lessons probably will not get you belts or cirtificates.
I finished a Tae Kwando program with a black belt. Took some other classes since for variety. Seems Aikido and Jujitsu may be more useful. That's just an opinion though.

When I went through the pipeline the only hand to hand combat training you received was in the pool, but in all honesty that was more harrasment than fight training. I was a Marine before I was a PJ and there was not a lot of hand to hand training in (the real sense) IE in depth training than there is in PJ training. The reason is simple. Initial training of any war fighter begins with building a willingness to go into combat and fight according to the doctrine imposed or required by each unit (thus the war cry hoo yah , or, AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHH). In other words you become motivated to do the mission. And you charge the attacker. That's what Marines do. PJ'S are trained and must avoid at all costs contact with the enemy, this is how we break down the enemy infrustructure, we deny them acceess. We confuse them , and we rescue important people. If the enemy pisses us off we call in overwhelming firepower to decimate the enemy. If the enemy is not destroyed by the over whelming fire power, and there are remnents of the the enemy forc left then we kill them with hand held weapons. The last resort is hand to hand combat.

In modern warefare, this is the prefered scenerio for all war fighters. Always use your assets, and always know how to use them.

Motivation to kill or evade is selective and unavidable. If you come into personal contact with the enemy you must kill him before he kills you. You are (whether you are a marine or a pj) on your own in this circumstance. Therefore you must first and formost understand weapons tachics in order to survive a close combat situation. IT IS NEVER ADVISABLE TO TO LET YOUR ENEMY GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO YOU T0 BECOME INVOLVED IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT. But if he does there are certain things that you can do.

Again, know your weapon, for god sake know it inside and out. Be proficient with your weapon(s), understand close combat firing techniques. Develope the capacity to kill at 1000 yards or more(or less) with a single shot.

Practice with your teammates, do dry runs on weapons obstacle courses (on a constant basis). Every one of your weapons of choice should be the one thing in the end that stands between you and physical contact with the enemy. And why not, he is thinking the same way and he's not ***** around.

From the time i spent at indoc. Depending on the proctor they might give you some grappling training. There was a Setback smoke session that involved about 2 1/2 hours of wrestling when three of the guys had never wrestled in their life. Hand to hand is nothing more than letting the other guy not kill you.

I have taken Wado Ru, and Tea Kwon do. I would advise to stay away from civilian classes. The only thing I learned, in essence, is that we are not supposed to hurt our opponent. And that is all good expect Charlie and Hajji are thinking just the opposite. Anyways, I found that PDF for ya.

H2H (FM 3-25.150 Combatives)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-25-150/index.html

Other cool Military ebooks can be found at
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/

P.S. Everyone's dif. even Bruce Lee believed everyone should create their own person style and regretted creating Jeet Kun Do because he felt naming it made standardized the form. Anyway, Check out these links because if you learn it yourself then it will have no choice but to be personal. It will make you a more unique fighter. The only way to be.

This one is still going?

I'm just curious as to when the last time someone actually used hand to hand combat. I mean, it's good to know how to generally fight, and what not. But c'mon, you can't actually tell me people care this much about recieving this kind of training. You take a gun with you into combat, a knife on your side. If those don't work, you are going to get shot; not have the guy come take his shirt off and want to fight you in fist-i-cuffs.

WOW! Well, about 1 month ago in a small town a Marine killed a 17yr old girl, put one man in critical condition and the other two ran off...
I don't have the whole story word for word, but this is how it goes...
An retired Marine was walking home from work in a small town and 4 people cornered him. 3 guys and a girl. They were demanding his money and telling him they were going to kill him. AS he handed his bag over, he had a knife pouch on side; he pulls his knife out and stabs the girl, cuts one guy and the other two ran off!

Oh, and to woodsp... WOW, I guess you have a point. I just don't think it happens all that often. I'd rather be proficiently trained in my weapons and not so much hand to hand. I think in general most people know how to decently fight.

Worst comes to worst, I'm eye gouging and fish hooking... Knee to the growing!

Just to throw something in, that if one is proficient in using their hands you may not have to take a life with your knife. With intel being so time sensitive with a decentralized enemeny and the possibility of having some terrorist sh**head handing a knife to some teenager and telling him he has to kill me and the million other reasons and situations that could arise where preserving life is not only possible but beneficial. I'm all for employing our weapons, kicking a** and taking names, but there are situations where the mortal wound inflicted by your Kbar is less of a benefit than knowing how to truly employ a striking blow or a submission and your flexi cuffs. Just my opinion.

Okay, I have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, for about 6 years and I have not had to use it once. It is simply another tool in my toolbox, and very fun.

If I had to say in order what weapons I would work on primarily they would be as follows:

My mind: My mindset is the most important because if my mind is not strong then when I do come face to face with Johnny savage then all other weapons have no use.

Air to ground: Spooky this is me rain hell on Johnny savage, Thanks.

Rocket/Grenade: Goes in the building first, or thrown in general direction of Johnny Savage

My primary weapon: Focus on the front site, Breath, Squeeze the trigger, follow through, down goes Johnny Savage.

Secondary weapon: Same as above, but only because primary weapon is down.

Some other weapon: Found on Johnny Savage because one of the above failed.

Knife/Hand2Hand: Everything is FUBAR, and Johhny Savage is not going to win.

Many documented cases of fights, but they a rarely talked about.

nuff said...

Krav Maga is a very effective art and easy to learn. It is being taught to many law enforcement and military units. It is the self defense system of the Israeli Defense Forces. I received 6 weeks of training and thought it was much more effective and aggressive then the TaeKwonDo I'm involved in. I would recommend it to anyone.

KravMC is a very very effective art based on Krav Maga but is even easier to learn. Step one, kick 'em in the shin. Step two, run like heck. Took 6 minutes of training on the kick but daily practice on the run...

Post deleted by TE

Do not post that type of BS again Bombero.