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#23570 - Thu Jan 29 2004 16:04 PM Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Guard MC Offline

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Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1737
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
Here's one for you gun nuts. Which branch of the US Military was first to order large quatities (over a thousand)of the Armalite/AR-15/M-16 series rifle and who was the General who placed the order. Bonus if you can name any organization that has any of the remaining examples in their active weapons inventory.
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#23571 - Thu Jan 29 2004 19:05 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
DaddyWarBucks Offline
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Registered: Sat Jan 10 2004
Posts: 13
Loc: Texas
McNamara
Army and Air Force

bonus...some SWAT details use AR-15s.


Edited by DaddyWarBucks (Thu Jan 29 2004 19:06 PM)

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#23572 - Thu Jan 29 2004 19:51 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Scooter Offline
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Registered: Sun May 18 2003
Posts: 31
Loc: Constitution State
Does the Secret Service still use the AR-15?
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#23573 - Fri Jan 30 2004 08:00 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
CK Offline
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Registered: Tue Mar 12 2002
Posts: 147
Loc: Odessa, FL
USAF, ordered by Gen. LeMay at a picnic sponsored by the manufacturer. He wanted them to help protect his growing inventory of cold war bombers at airbases.

What do I win?

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#23574 - Fri Jan 30 2004 13:15 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
DirtyStu Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 29 2003
Posts: 44
Loc: pipeline
Did Gen Lemay actually order them, or just say he would like to have 8000 AR-15s to replace the M-1 and M-2 in 1960. I think the first actual order was placed by the Advanced Research Projects Agency; and was an order of 1000. These weapons were sent to S Vietnam for field testing.

The LAPD has originals retired from the US ARMY.......
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Dirty Stu Age Wrinkles The Skin; Quitting Wrinkles The Soul.

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#23575 - Fri Jan 30 2004 16:33 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
CK Offline
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Registered: Tue Mar 12 2002
Posts: 147
Loc: Odessa, FL
The question involved an order by a General. I do belive there was a problem with LeMay's order with congress later on.

The Army hated the M-16 initially. The Alaska test center rigged the winter testing to insure the failure of the rifle (they used the wrong lube). Seems they didn't think it's small caliber was a proper rifle. (Stoner probably refused to grease enough palms).

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#23576 - Fri Jan 30 2004 16:50 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
DirtyStu Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 29 2003
Posts: 44
Loc: pipeline
Hooyah
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#23577 - Fri Jan 30 2004 18:16 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Martin Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 12 2003
Posts: 71
Loc: Houston
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm
Nice history lesson on it.

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#23578 - Sat Jan 31 2004 16:21 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Guard MC Offline

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Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1737
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
General LeMay actually did get a few thousand early M-16s for the Strategic Air Command out of funds already at his disposal. Congress refused to grant funds specificly for the purchace of the Armalite. So the Air Force actually had some Armalites/early M-16s in the States before the SF did over in Vietnam. The military unit (I should have specified this in the post) that still has them is the 123 Security Forces Squadron in Louisville, KY. When you see them, you can tell they aren't the standard M-16. They look like a cross between the original AR-15 and an M-16. They are still carried in the active inventory but not actually fired anymore. Wierd how these things happen, eh?
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#23579 - Sat Jan 31 2004 23:07 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
crew341 Offline
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Registered: Tue Jun 24 2003
Posts: 75
Loc: raleigh, nc
The national guard and its equipment.....i swear the things you see in the guard are amazing.

MC Guard, why does the 123rd still have them if they aren't fired?


Edited by crew341 (Sat Jan 31 2004 23:10 PM)
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#23580 - Sun Feb 01 2004 08:30 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
CK Offline
Operator

Registered: Tue Mar 12 2002
Posts: 147
Loc: Odessa, FL
[]The national guard and its equipment.....i swear the things you see in the guard are amazing.[/]

The reserves and guard often had better equipment than the ADP's (at least when I was in). Particularly late in the fiscal year when fallout funds became available. Grab the catalogs and spend money was the order of the day. We carried out our orders well...

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#23581 - Mon Feb 02 2004 06:33 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Guard MC Offline

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Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1737
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
The 123 SF Squadron only has four of the weapons and with manning the way it is, it hasn't been an issue. The intent, so I hear, is to put them in a museum and get new
M-4s to replace them.
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#23582 - Thu Feb 05 2004 06:22 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Tomahawk Offline
Member

Registered: Mon Jun 03 2002
Posts: 152
Loc: Florida
Just some gee-whiz info since the question was already answered... when I was the UDM at Kirtland I had to inventory all the weapons for our folks on mobility. Our WX shop had an M16 with OD green barrel shrouds, pistol grip and stock. I was surprised to see this, so inspecting closer noticed a smaller (than the ones I had seen in pics) than normal three prong flash suppressor. Then the really amazing part... the side of the weapon read, "Armalite Corp. Patent Pending"! It's serial # was 8k and change. This was 1995/6 and it was still going strong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

//end of useless info//

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#23583 - Mon Mar 08 2004 07:55 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Mark K Offline
New Member

Registered: Wed Feb 26 2003
Posts: 33
Loc: North West Florida
last year just prior to most of the unit going out and about my AES squadron at Lackland (433) had all original issue M-16's, no forward bolt assists, skinny light weight barrels, trianglular hand guards and the 3 pronged flash hider. I don't know for sure if they were part of the original lot but had to be damn close to it.
They have supposedly upgraded to something slightly newer.

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#23584 - Wed Mar 10 2004 17:39 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
KTIT0704 Offline
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Registered: Sat Jan 10 2004
Posts: 32
I'm a TACP crossing over into CCT and up untill about a year ago our whole squadron had the AR-15 fully auto's Nomenclature was actually the "GUU-5P"(plus or minus a "U"). Nice little weapon especially with the auto selectable. Not really a neccessary function but it did a good job of making it sound like there were more of us around then there actually was.
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#23585 - Mon Mar 29 2004 14:08 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
Guard MC Offline

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Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1737
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
The 123 STS had the old GUU-5P until recently too. Nice weapon but once the NATO Green Tip came out, you couldn't fire on full auto. Two or three rounds down the barrel and it would jam. The buffer spring just couldn't handle the extra oomph of the hotter round (so I'm told but I'm no expert). All I know is that you couldn't get out a three round burst or more because it would jam. Not that you often need to fire on full auto but it is nice to be able to do so in an ambush situation.
It was an OK weapon but I'm glad to get the M-4. The rails are nice and the weapon can handle the Green Tip ammo.
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#23586 - Fri May 21 2004 19:44 PM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
boatguy Offline
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Registered: Mon May 03 2004
Posts: 13
I've never heard the nomenclature GUU-5P. Is that the M16, or is it a different weapon?

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#23587 - Sat May 22 2004 08:50 AM Re: Armalite, AR-15, M-16 Trivia
CK Offline
Operator

Registered: Tue Mar 12 2002
Posts: 147
Loc: Odessa, FL
There were basically 3 models of "Gau's" issued to PJ's IIRC. There was the GAU-5A, the GAU-5A/A and the GUU-5P. I can't recall which was which, but one of the GAU models had a very short barrel (just longer than the front sight base) with a large flash suppresor that looked like a small silencer. The "A" model did not have a forward assist IIRC. The GUU-5P was standard issue in later years with the longer barrel and "normal" birdcage flash suppressor and forward assist. We had at least one of each at the old 301st back in the day. The small barrel (A, I think) was very loud and couldn't group a string of bullets to save it's life. The large flash suppressor didn't do anything but announce your position to the world (big flames).

So, to answer you question: The GUU-5P is a shortened M-16 (shorter handguards and barrel), with collapsible stock.

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