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#23248 - Mon Jan 19 2004 11:32 AM Help! Trying to weigh benifits between PJ or SEAL
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
As topic says i am tring to decided weather to go into the seals or PJ's. i have read jack brehms book and 2 navy seal books, The warrior elite and a Warriors Soul. But am still unable to make a good based decision on which Spec Ops to join. please help.


Edited by TE (Sun Jan 25 2004 13:27 PM)

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#23249 - Mon Jan 19 2004 11:56 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
crew341 Offline
New Member

Registered: Tue Jun 24 2003
Posts: 75
Loc: raleigh, nc
Please do a search!!! Read the ROE's. This topic has been discussed many times, in depth. Don't make Te mad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

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#23250 - Mon Jan 19 2004 12:18 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
I have done search ihave been researching on the internet for about 2 months now. All i get is vag answers. Do what u like best, choice is up to you. I read about 500 post and no REAL information about the nitty gritty is there. Dont believe me look for urself, and about 400 of the post i read are "do research this topic has been discussed to death". Well this topic hasnt been discussed to death or i would not be asking this question.

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#23251 - Mon Jan 19 2004 13:24 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
M4_Shooter Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Nov 08 2003
Posts: 65
Hey, Go to these sites and check them out. Specialtactics.com is to PJ/CCT as these are to SEALs.

http://www.navyseals.com http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil

They should at least provide you with some information to compair PJs to SEALs. navyseals.com has a forum, so read through the posts there and see what you can find. If you have any more questions, or want to compair ideas, send me a PM and we can chat there.

John

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#23252 - Mon Jan 19 2004 13:43 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
PARAHOSS Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun Dec 21 2003
Posts: 6
Loc: Fort Collins, Co
Hey try reading my last post DECISION, Im in the same boat as you, but I already have my paperwork done for SEALS and im still trying to figure out what I want to do, I guess its like everyone says, do whats gonna make you happy your the only one that has to live with the decision. I know that doesnt help much, I keep thinkin PJ'S but I want the direct action stuff. Its a tuff decision to make. SO GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

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#23253 - Mon Jan 19 2004 14:02 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
I read ur post "Desicion" very good. I have aslo read about every post conserning seals and PJ's as far back as 2000. But im in the same boat as you. I got off the phone with friend of mine in the CCT pipeline. Before this i was determined to go seals. He is determined to convince me that AF is so much better. HE told me that they get all their equipment given to them, treated much better and that almost every other SF branch had dozens of transfers into AF spec ops. I told him that it would be cool goin in and saving lives, but it might bemore cool for the direct action mission as search and destroy etc. I also do realize that Pjs sometimes do have direct actions. But after reading "that others may live" and the 2 seal docamentaries, the seal mission seem a bit more of my type of style, but lifestyle, and treatment is aslo very important.

I am also concernded what type of post career i will have after military spec ops, assuming i am man enough to make it through. Do Pj's have an equal chance of joining FBI, SWAT DEA as seals do? This is just a hard decision not to be taken lightly.

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#23254 - Mon Jan 19 2004 14:10 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 1755
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
[]But am still unable to make a good based decision on which Spec Ops to join. please help.[/] Nobody is in position to guarantee which spec Ops occupation is the best for you, or which will provide you the most job satisfaction. People who are in each will say the job they are doing is the best. More importantly nobody can even predict in any certainty if you have what it takes to do any of these jobs. All important life choices are risks, but the risk is your responsibility to take. Research the jobs and make your choice based on what you think is best for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#23255 - Mon Jan 19 2004 15:27 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Guard MC Offline
Operator

Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1826
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
Wetzl,
Every man has a different personality, different goals, and different priorities. So does each service and each career field. I understand your concern; it's tough to make a life choice when there is so little real info. Well that's life. You can read the mission statements and watch the TV and movies all you want, but NOTHING is going to tell you what is best for you and niether can anyone else.
Now, want some advice? Here's my 2 cents, and YES, I AM BIASED TOWARDS AIR FORCE SPECIAL OPS.
PJs or SEALs, you are going to have to pay a high price for a chance to do the coolest training and operations in the world. The big question is what kind of job do you want to do. Both jobs have you running around in bad guy land, it's just that PJs get to do it a lot more than SEALs. Why? SEAL Teams are assigned geographic areas so if the war is happening in another team's area, you are left out. PJs and CCTs go where the action is. What's the difference? About 30% of all SEALs have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan where as about 80% of all PJs have been. Now once your in bad guy land, what do you want to do. If you want to blow things up, shoot people and kick doors in, the SEALs do that; not as much as you might think but it is their skill set. PJs go in and pull out wounded aircrews and soldiers. Sometimes it's a nice quick ride on a helo, a speedy pick up and back to base. Sometimes they go in and stay for days. Sometimes all hell breaks loose and they are treating bleeders, fractures, shock, concussion, and amputaions in the back of a helo as it dodges ground fire and RPGs (yes, I know it's true, I wrote the award packages on it) Depends on the mission. And sometimes nothing happens and you sit on alert and wait...and wait...and wait.
Now, I have worked directly with SEALs very rarely. The last time I did, I spent some time in the mountains with them and we got to know each other pretty good. After a while, some of the young guys asked me how they could become CCT or PJs. They said they did not get to operate as much as they had hoped and that they did not have the freedom of action that PJs and CCTs took for granted. The training was good but not as much fun as they had thought it would be. The operations were OK but they liked the way the Air Force did business better. They really didn't want to do any more six month floats, sitting on a ship waiting for something to happen.
Now, I told you I was biased, so take it for what it is worth. I respect and like the SEALs and their mission. But I'll never forget sitting at a firebase after a mission, waiting for our chopper, and having those young kids come over one by one to see me about crossing over to the Air Force. I think that says it all right there.
_________________________
Guard MC

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#23256 - Mon Jan 19 2004 17:32 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
DisgruntledSquid Offline
New Member

Registered: Fri Jun 20 2003
Posts: 28
Young ones, listen to the "old guy" GuardMC. I spent 10 years in the Navy and am presently a Navy Reservist. Being in the EOD community I have met plenty of SF, SEALS, Rangers, CCT, PJ, and Recon Bubbas over the years. (There are plenty of ex Rangers, ex SF, & ex Recon guys in EOD & the Teams.) Their concensus is this, USMC life sucks, Army a little less, the Navy less so, and the AF the best. Six month deployments are loonnngggg, and ships are boring.

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#23257 - Mon Jan 19 2004 17:37 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
I dont suppose anyone Seal or PJ perferably both post there down time during lets say a month where all you do is sit around waiting for something to happen. 10-100%?
Thank you

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#23258 - Mon Jan 19 2004 17:46 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
Also, do PJ's have equal chances of joining FBI, CIA, SWAT jobs of that nature as a seal would? Is there a better chance of getting in a post military job as stated above in either of the special ops?

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#23259 - Mon Jan 19 2004 18:18 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Guard MC Offline
Operator

Registered: Sat Aug 09 2003
Posts: 1826
Loc: Louisville, Ky STS
Wetze1,
The FBI, CIA Department of State and all the other alphabet soups out there do not distinguish SEALs from PJs from cooks in their regular hireing process. Standardized tests, a Bachelors Degree or higher, minority status and veterans status are the main things they use. All these agencies are starting to realize that military guys, particularly those with Spec Ops backgrounds, are great assets and are hireing more them all the time. Will they still be hireing like crazy when you finish your first enlistment? I doubt it. The current administaration is trying to make up for years of neglect over the last administration. Soon, that will be redressed, at least as redressed as Congress is willing to fund. Does a 4 year enlistment in any Spec Ops make a difference? Only if you meet all the other criteria and all things are equal between you and the other applicants. A minority female (10 point preference) with NO service has a better chance at getting the job as a Vet with years of field time (5 point preference).
Now, there are other jobs out there for former Operators but they are just too unpredictable for you to base your decision on now. I've seen guys from all branches of the Service get picked up for cool post militarty careers, but they made it happen for themselves. Their personality, drive, education, experience and abilities made the difference, not whether they were a SEAL, Ranger, SF, or PJ.
You have the cart way before the horse here. One step at a time. First, figure out which job appeals to you, then do it. Make it through training (the wash out rate is pretty high in either program) and operate for a while. Later on you can decide what to do when it's time to retire or get out. You can't make your whole life plan revolve around your first enlistment. There are too many uncertainties that early on. Choose a job, qulify for it, give it your all and then see where you stand.
_________________________
Guard MC

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#23260 - Mon Jan 19 2004 23:33 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
DaddyWarBucks Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Jan 10 2004
Posts: 13
Loc: Texas
If I may…First of all I would like to commend Guard MC for his professional manner in which he replied to Wetze1. It’s few and far between you see that on military type sites. From my observation most individuals past or present seem to forget how it was to be young. EVERY young person has 1000 questions and most of the time have difficulty forming the right words to say so they come across as silly and immature. Well it’s my opinion that’s what being a teenager is all about…one of the biggest learning curves in life. We ALL were there once. I find it disheartening when I see grown adults belittle the ones who seek their leadership and advice. A role we all aspired to as a teenager. Of course it gets annoying day in and day out to hear the same thing over and over. But why does that give us (the adults) the right to slam them. What kind of example are we setting? I personally had 1000 questions the other day when I found this site and naturally wanted to post my questions just to get the answers handed to me because I “think” I am so busy and have little time to “search” for the answers. LOL then I saw the trivia section! (to much fun BTW) I felt a duty as a parent and an adult to post because I was extremely impressed with the more gentle candid approach by Guard MC and hope not only will this young person (along with others) take from this thread a lesson not only about PJs and SEALs but one of appreciation for someone else’s time and consideration for their concerns. I do agree the “search” function goes unnoticed way to much but I also feel a simple reminder is not to much to ask. Lets be realistic here…these kids are our nations future plus they are in the stage of grabbing the milk carton and chugging out of it never once considering there are other people in the family. LOL No offense intended to either sides of the fence. Now as for my opinion on PJ or SEAL…our family has one official SEAL and one hopeful PJ (currently in the pipeline) both have differing opinions but are two tremendously fantastic stand up guys who made their decision based on personal interests and character. We also have an Aunt who writes text manuals and state tests for Paramedics. She can’t ride a roller coaster but she can scrape a body off the pavement. As an outsider (president of the Nerd Herd) looking in…employ the basics in your descion making…do I like this, can I stomach that, will I freak out if I see this, can I live with or without that…moreover what can my mental and physical being sustain? A personal side note…I gave birth to all of my kids naturally without ANY damn meds…it sucked but I lived! It was important to me to be med free the best thing for my child. Sacrifice is key in this life decision. Ask any mother about that…she’ll tell you pain and sacrifice run a tight race with “Special Operators” It takes a special person to adjust daily, hourly and instantaneously. Search deep within…dissect your personality and inner strengths…be brutally honest with yourself, no one else has to know but you. Dreams are great but is it a tangible reality for you! There you will find the answer. The answer to most of life’s questions. Hope that helps any and all. If at all!

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#23261 - Tue Jan 20 2004 12:45 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
DisgruntledSquid Offline
New Member

Registered: Fri Jun 20 2003
Posts: 28
Wetze1:

Interesting story about post military carreers. I met a E8 PJ at the end of his career. Retiring in the Hampton Roads area he got a job working for the NavSpecWarDevGru. He was hired to run their medical training program. Kind of funny an AF guy working for the Navy, huh. Also, being a RN he got slotted as an on call Trauma Nurse for the FBI's HRT. Point is, he used his personal networking skills, education, and experience to set himself up.

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#23262 - Tue Jan 20 2004 14:18 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
I would like to thank all of you for ur excellent knowledge and wisdom u have bestowed upon me. I did search for about 3 hours for Seal vs PJ life, but came up with no hard conclusions. I just like to know every possible thing before i make a big decision such as this. But as it stand right now i am leaning towards the Af for a couple of reasons. First I do not have to be restriced to what jobs are offered in order to get to the navy seals challange. Second, i hear a lot of cross-training into the AF from all branches and not so much the other way. Third, even though there is some contraversy on these boards about which military life has best family life, i think AF is best for my future family. Finally theres the fact that PJ's can and do go on more real life missions.

One last thing i want to say, that kinda upset me a little. I walked into Naval recruiters office and when i told them about how i was considering the AF PJ's, he looked at me like i was stupid. Then asked me what the PJ's and CCT do. I explained to him in short that PJ's go in save lives and CCT set up airstrips. He said "wow never knew what they did" I can't believe that a military recruiter did not know what the hell a PJ or CCT was.

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#23263 - Tue Jan 20 2004 15:51 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
M4_Shooter Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Nov 08 2003
Posts: 65
Kind of sad isn’t it. I joined a gym and was talking to one of the trainers about showing me some different weight machines that I need to use (not to knowledgeable on weight training) and he asked me why I wanted to get in shape and I said I was going into the Air Force and going to do Pararescue. He's like: "what’s Pararescue? Is that like parachuting and stuff?" He sorta demonstrated jumping with his arms out like a bird and flapped them.. I just let that one alone.

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#23264 - Tue Jan 20 2004 18:16 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
I can understand a little bit why cilvilans dont know about PJ's, i mean I hadnt heard about them until i was investigating special forces, looking for Seal sights and saw PJ and CCT come up. I dont think there were ever any popular movies about PJ's till blackhawk down came out, even then I didnt realy hear anyone say the term Pararescue or PJ to much in there, I most def. heard Seals, and Deltaforce a lot. But it just Boggled my mind that a damn Military RECRUITER almost didnt even know that AF had specail forces.

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#23265 - Tue Jan 20 2004 21:08 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Neo Offline
Member

Registered: Thu Mar 15 2001
Posts: 351
Loc: Iowa
I just scanned over all these posts, but if you want to speak to some real Frogs go over to www.socnetcentral.com/vb
But tread lightly, they don't take no BS, you will get burned if you don't act polite. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Kyle "Put the beer down and drive!" -My bro

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#23266 - Tue Jan 20 2004 21:30 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
M4_Shooter Offline
New Member

Registered: Sat Nov 08 2003
Posts: 65
I don't expect civilians to know everything either, just the way he flapped his arms and said it is what got me. No big deal.

John

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#23267 - Tue Jan 20 2004 21:42 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
LOL good point.

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#23268 - Sat Jan 24 2004 11:18 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
John_Spuke Offline
Operator

Registered: Thu Jan 22 2004
Posts: 121
Loc: In Cones faces.
See how many SEALS or Navy people cross train into the Air Force after a few years of being in the navy. I know several. Then compare that to how many Air Force people leave the Air Force to go into the Army, Navy or Marines......NONE!!!! In the Air Force you have the best people, the best funding and you can still go to the other services schools later down the road but always come back to the Force.
_________________________
Work out your own salvation through fear and trembling.

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#23269 - Sun Jan 25 2004 12:46 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
JonN Offline
New Member

Registered: Fri Apr 05 2002
Posts: 72
Loc: Fayetteville, N.C.
Wetze1, please don't say "im deciding whether to go SEALs or PJ" I know most kids talk that way, but it just makes you look like a wannabe who is not serious, after all you have to join the Navy or Air Force to do them.

Also, what is your physical conditioning like? Im not in the military, but I know many kids who want to become a Navy Seal or SF and Delta and all that jazz, but they are overweight and all they do is play video games with these units in them. Focus on fitness more than which one right not (unless your going to join in a month or two, lol). because whatever your choice is, you have to be equally fit for each.

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#23270 - Tue Jan 27 2004 18:17 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
JonN
First of all im not a kid. Second of all im not fat, I am probrably in better shape then u will ever be. I took the PAST test with my recruiter and his supervisor and maxed out the points. 9:57 1.5 mile, 10:05 500m swim, 71 pushups,13 chinups,75 sit ups,80 flutter kicks. I have the sheet with his and supervisors signiture on it. THIRD, i am not a wannabe, if i couldnt decided at this moment what is best for me it does not make me a wannabe Fourth I have a ship date of July 27 to go PJ. So if this all makes me a wannabe i guess i am one. Next time get ur facts before you ramble on some BS about me.

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#23271 - Wed Jan 28 2004 06:37 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
TE Offline
Operator

Registered: Thu Oct 17 2002
Posts: 4113
Loc: Various
Good scores.
You're still a wannabe until you make it.

Lets keep it civil and professional or the thread will be gone.
_________________________
TE
Pararescueman (Ret)/Webmaster/Administrator/RKC
The real test comes when all strength has fled, and men must produce victory on will alone...

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#23272 - Wed Jan 28 2004 08:40 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 1755
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
[]I took the PAST test with my recruiter and his supervisor and maxed out the points. 9:57 1.5 mile, 10:05 500m swim, 71 pushups,13 chinups,75 sit ups,80 flutter kicks.[/]

Strong like bull, smart like tractor. Selection and becoming a successful PJ is more than being a fitness stud. It's very unfortunate gonnabees focus primarily on required fitness standards and ignore or forget about the rest of the whole-person qualifications required to do the job competently and successfully day after day.

I had my opportunity at the selection process from 15 Aug 73 to 11 Nov 73. There were many who were given the opportunity with me who could out swim out perform me in the calisthenics, but they self-eliminated themselves. Every PJ can tell you the same about their selection and how super studs in the selection program were often the first to quit. I made it through selection and was a PJ for 23 years.

If fitness was the only part of being a PJ there would be more PJs because the minimum required fitness standard is not difficult to obtain and sustain.

Ship date is only your opportunity to do or not do. Until you complete training any hat hanging on going to do this is nothing more than talk about what you hope might be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

BTW: Impressive scores, but did you use proper form on those calisthenics? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Yukon (Wed Jan 28 2004 08:52 AM)

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#23273 - Wed Jan 28 2004 10:02 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Wetze1 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jan 19 2004
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana,
Smart like a tractor huh? Well i dont think a tractor could score a 94 on his asvab as did I. Lets see, as for proper form on cal. i really dont think it matters what form I use on cal. as long as I make the time. For the swim form i used sidestroke. Joggin, well i dont think it matters how u jog as long as u make the time. As for the rest, the supervisor pretty much made sure I used the correct form.

I am not in any way saying I will make it 100% all the way through the pipelilne. I dont think any one person can say with a 100% certainty that they will make it. What I can tell u is I will never quit and give it 100%. ya i wanna be a PJ it u want to call me a wanna be for that, have at it. But do not call me a wannabe, as in someone who just talks the talk and doesnt walk the walk. I have been doing everything I can think of to prepare for special forces for the last 5 months and plan to contiune it till I graduate as a PJ, PT, mentally and research wise. I have read extensivly this and other websites, read books written by PJ's, watched docmentaris on them. I have also read motivation books, The "art of war" translation. etc. If there is anything that u think that I havent done and would help me better my chances of surviving PJ school let me know and i'll do it.
But do not call me some fat kid playing video games who decides he wants to be like the guys on the TV. I am NOT one of those.

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#23274 - Wed Jan 28 2004 10:18 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Seraphim Offline
Member

Registered: Sun Mar 24 2002
Posts: 279
Loc: Pipeline
He he like a tractor… You sure do spell like one. 5 months is a relatively short time to wait compared to some of us. Try some professionalism and calm yourself. If it is THAT easy to get under your skin I wonder if you will even make it through basic.
Bottom line...you did well on the PAST. Don't worry about what everybody else says. If your heart is in the right place you have no need to be so defensive. As with everything in life, take what is helpful for you and discard the rest.

Good luck to you bro.
_________________________
You are a fool! I am going to crush you, and throw you into the wind. -Vegeta

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#23275 - Wed Jan 28 2004 10:59 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Diablo Offline
Member

Registered: Sun Jan 18 2004
Posts: 152
Loc: Eglin AFB, FL
Right on point Seraphim,
_________________________
-The only easy day was yesterday

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#23276 - Wed Jan 28 2004 11:52 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 1755
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
ROFL[]He he like a tractor… You sure do spell like one.[/]

Much like a tractor for sure!!! [] But do not call me a wannabe, as in someone who just talks the talk and doesnt walk the walk.[/] I implied “hope to be” and "gonna be”. Quite different context from the negative “wanna be” you are alleging I called you. Definitely book smart and able to match proper response with the right question, but clearly much short on discriminating differences in how information is presented. Clearly has difficulty applying book smarts in an appropriate way in the adult work place.
[] But do not call me some fat kid playing video games who decides he wants to be like the guys on the TV. I am NOT one of those.[/]<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Yukon (Wed Jan 28 2004 12:12 PM)

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#23277 - Wed Jan 28 2004 12:12 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
sledgehammer Offline
Guru

Registered: Sun May 20 2001
Posts: 811
Loc: Cincinnati
Wetze1, look up the term "Silent Professional".

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#23278 - Wed Jan 28 2004 13:19 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
TSt. Offline
Operator

Registered: Fri Sep 26 2003
Posts: 93
Loc: Montana
“Wetze1”…RELAX!!!! Yes you did well on the PAST… Take that for what it’s worth…simply the minimum requirement expected by all wannabes to be allowed to TRY. As for your ASVAB excellent! That’s a great STARTING point, but realize it says nothing about you personally. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Many of us, who have gone before you are trying to help you, not discourage you. If you take offense and cop and attitude to “Yukon” and his advice, YOU WILL NOT MAKE IT THROUGH OL-H AND THE PIPELINE…PERIOD-END OF DISCUSSION! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Instead of getting defensive try something that saved me many years ago when I was a PJ wannabe at the OL-J (It also worked for many years subsequent as an Operator)…SHUT UP AND THINK!

Finally, YOU ARE A WANNABE, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> be proud of the distinction and remember…not one person who goes to the OL-H feels he will SIE…not one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
TS

Courage is not the absence of fear... but the conquest of it.

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#23279 - Wed Jan 28 2004 18:30 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
TSgt_Andrews Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun Jul 13 2003
Posts: 63
Loc: Smoky Hill ANG Range
Wetze1, Just a word of friendly advice. The Special Tactics community is a family. Team work is going to be the difference in not only making it through training but keeping you or your buddy alive when downrange. You can have scores off of the chart in every category, but if you're not a team player it makes you dangerous and not many will want to work with you. Take some of the advice offered here, especially that offered by AAneeded on the term "Silent Professional". Prove yourself by your actions not your words. Best of luck.
_________________________
Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato


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#23280 - Thu Jan 29 2004 01:03 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
03djh Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon May 19 2003
Posts: 55
Loc: Spangdhalem AB
wetze1...

first, read AA's post again about "silent professionals"...

second, JonN did not call YOU a fat, video game kid...he said he sees lots of people talking about ST/SF who need to assess their fitness first...sound advice...since it obviously didn't apply, you should have kept your mouth shut...

third, your attitude and demeanor are an antipathy and antithesis to what is required on a team...better commit some serious time to self-reflection before embarking on this endeavour...

fourth, the prior SNCO in me would ensure you are on the receiving end of an old school counseling session if you were on active duty...

fifth, the STO wannabe that i am today hopes you straighten up before i may ever have to work with/lead you...

sixth, yes i called myself a wannabe and i'm 35 with 17 years in the Air Force...my email is in my profile if you'd like to discuss you're mediocre PAST results...

seventh, you may have received max points on this entry PAST, but in the teams your scores are merely average...

eighth...for someone with a 94 ASVAB your spelling and grammar are atrocious...

and finally, these are things you need to read and understand about yourself now so you can improve on them by the time it counts...reference all my posts and you will see that they are all either helpful in nature or to provide an alternative viewpoint...this one is designed to be helpful as well, only forcefully so because you need it...i would have taken it to email, but you didn't have one listed...

feel free to reply via email if you require clarification...peace...djh
_________________________
truth is one...the sages speak of it by many names (joseph campbell)

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#23281 - Thu Jan 29 2004 20:13 PM Re: Help! Trying to weigh benifits between PJ or SEAL
PJ2PA Offline

Operator

Registered: Sun Mar 18 2001
Posts: 248
Loc: NVARRE
Once again the freedom of speech with out the responsibility of action. Isn't the internet great, for all we know "wanna-be Wetze" is a 67 year old grandmother Taliban, jus' having fun getting ya'll stirred up.

Yo, wanna-be, put your money where your keyboard is and tell me your name, I'd just like to track your success through basic and the Indoc. And by the way, posting your mediocre scores revealed much about your maturity. Wise up and listen to some of the advice offered here. Thanks for the memory of being 18 years old. Good luck and good nite.

djh, very smooth - but way too nice. This situation calls for some good old fashioned 'been there-done that' and you ain't one of us, so show a little respect till you have.


Edited by PJ2PA (Thu Jan 29 2004 20:19 PM)
_________________________
"That Others May Live...To Return With Honor"

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#23282 - Fri Jan 30 2004 11:25 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
TSt. Offline
Operator

Registered: Fri Sep 26 2003
Posts: 93
Loc: Montana
[]Re: 04-004 [Re: KDTommyboy]
#22886 - 01/20/04 06:19 PM Edit Reply Quote



Well i decided to go into PJ's after all my reading and such, i am goin to go in as any possible job that will get me down in basic early FEB. so hopefully i will be into the march class with u.[/]

Wetze1…So…you’ve decided to "...Go PJ..."… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

A few words of wisdom…(Since you’ve made it clear to ALL OF US – especially the Cadre at OL-H - when and where you will be)…

1. Change your attitude immediately…
2. Stay off the website with your adolescent comments…
3. SHUT UP…LISTEN…and THINK… before inserting your foot…

Good Luck…you are going to need it!
_________________________
TS

Courage is not the absence of fear... but the conquest of it.

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#23283 - Mon Feb 02 2004 12:09 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
TheSaint Offline
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 20 2002
Posts: 131
[]Young ones, listen to the "old guy" GuardMC. I spent 10 years in the Navy and am presently a Navy Reservist. Being in the EOD community I have met plenty of SF, SEALS, Rangers, CCT, PJ, and Recon Bubbas over the years. (There are plenty of ex Rangers, ex SF, & ex Recon guys in EOD & the Teams.) Their concensus is this, USMC life sucks, Army a little less, the Navy less so, and the AF the best. Six month deployments are loonnngggg, and ships are boring. [/]

Another book that is required reading, to help facilitate a decision toward being SEAL vs a PJ, is "None Braver" by Michael Hirsh.

If this book doesn't move you, you don't have a heart!
_________________________
Your value to the fight is not determined by the proximity to the target. GEN Peter J. Schoomaker, Chief of Staff, US Army

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#23284 - Mon Feb 02 2004 13:50 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 1755
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
[]Six month deployments are loonnngggg, and ships are boring. [/] They can be for the AF to as PJs are usually forward deployed and have very little free time to R&R. I remember my last few years active duty. Deploy six months, return home for two months to train and sustain mission mission ready certification and then deploy for another six months. Repeat this cycle over and over from 1989 to 1996.

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#23285 - Fri Feb 20 2004 01:26 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
neeshman Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun Dec 07 2003
Posts: 36
Loc: St. George, Utah
LOL! This post has been great so far! Kudos to everyone who has posted. This has been a great display of wisdom and advice from those who have been there and done that. I am sitting here at 1:35 re-reading eveything on this site for the millionth time.

GuardMC gave some great advice and the thread could probably have ended with what he said. I am not quite sure what the commotion was about, but I am reminded of the post by DaddyWarBucks near the beginning of this particular thread in which she coomended him on keeping that cool.

Wetze1 is just trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life right now, much like I was up until December. JonN, whats the deal with your post? Making that decision of either SEAL or PJ is a pretty important one and I don't seem to able to make the connection of Life Decision and Fat kid playing video games. Maybe that's just me though. The tough like a bull, but smart as a tractor comment by Yukon was ridiculous! (Although the rest of his post was very worthwhile) LOL! But then again maybe I am just not making the right connection. Might as well label me as "not the sharpest tool in the shed" I guess. Seriously I have the upmost respect for you, Yukon. I have that same respect for anyone that actually graduated as a PJ and right now all I can do is stare up @ you guys with shiny little eyes. I am totally stoked to be a Wannabe, and at the least have my chance to prove that I can do it. And if anyone tried to give me crap about my choice, my lack of abilities to achive my new-found goal or made stupid comments about where "they" thought my PT was at I would shove it back in their face by doing what they said I could not. Not out of disrespect to them, but self respect for me. It would probably come off as cocky, and yes it is. But hey, just like Wetze1, I earned my "chance" to prove it to everyone, wether I earn the maroon beret or not. So in honor of indoc and the teamwork involved, I say lets do it Wetze1 , no matter what anyone else says, time to prove yourself eh?

Disclaimer: Any immature/groundless/inappropriate comments and traits shown by myself will most certainly be beaten out of me over the next 6 years (or more) of my life. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Honestly TE, GuardMC, Yukon and everyone else out there... thanks for your input, I really enjoy your posts.
_________________________
I AM GOING TO BE A PJ! Period.

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#23286 - Fri Feb 20 2004 22:53 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
arbncdt1 Offline
Member

Registered: Mon Dec 29 2003
Posts: 214
Loc: el paso, texas
I am going to help you make up your mind. As a former member of the 19th Special Forces Group(SFG), I have trained with SEALs and PJ/CCT.
I jumped into Thailand with some PJ's. The training operation was for 21 days. It was June. Thailand is hot and humid, in June!!! After three days we noticed the PJ's were not around. Somebody inquired about the PJ's whereabouts. The PJ's were CHILLIN'IN A FIVE STAR HOTEL, IN THAILAND WITH 24 HRS. PERSONAL MAID SERVICE, AT GOV'T EXPENSE!!!

I do not want to be in the Air Force; however, my wife tells me reconsider.

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#23287 - Sun Feb 22 2004 18:28 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Marty Givens Offline
Operator

Registered: Fri Mar 16 2001
Posts: 393
Loc: Eugene, OR USA
I believe Kenneth just made the single best argument for being a PJ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Marty Givens
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate

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#23288 - Mon Feb 23 2004 14:26 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
neeshman Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun Dec 07 2003
Posts: 36
Loc: St. George, Utah
WOW! I would love to find out if the PJ's ability to perform their duties were somehow lessened becuase of their stay in the hotel. My guess is NO. So whats the big deal? Sleeping on a cot is great and all and I am sure that every single PJ out there would have no problem doin it whatsoever. But if offered a hotel to stay in which would you take?
_________________________
I AM GOING TO BE A PJ! Period.

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#23289 - Mon Feb 23 2004 16:37 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Tomahawk Offline
Member

Registered: Mon Jun 03 2002
Posts: 152
Loc: Florida
[]I believe Kenneth just made the single best argument for being a PJ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> [/]
LOL! Plus, what better way to overcome a hangover than having a PJ run an IV into your arm? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#23290 - Wed Feb 25 2004 10:46 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
arbncdt1 Offline
Member

Registered: Mon Dec 29 2003
Posts: 214
Loc: el paso, texas
The Air Force treat their personnel good, at times too good. PJ's/CCT/TAC-P personnel don't complain, if hotel amenities are not sufficient. Other Air Force personnel will cry!

To make rank in the Air Force is tough. Also, joining a branch of service who specialty is not 'infantry' combat arms, makes promotion potential worse, especially for officers.

I am trying to become an officer, in the Army. I do not want to fly. Lord willing, I will become a artillery officer. I can move up in rank, because the Army's specialty is combat arms.

All this being said, DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE CHILLIN' IN A FIVE STAR, AT GOV'T EXPENSE(incredulous)!

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#23291 - Fri Feb 27 2004 00:41 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Yukon Online
Operator

Registered: Wed Mar 14 2001
Posts: 1755
Loc: Anchorage AK, USA
Quote:
The tough like a bull, but smart as a tractor comment by yukon was ridiculous! (Although the rest of his post was very worthwhile) LOL! But then again maybe I am just not making the right connection. Might as well label me as "not the sharpest tool in the shed"


You bet it was ridiculous and Wetzel1 earned and deserved ridicule by claiming intellectual abilities clearly not demonstrated by his attention to grammar and spelling. Foolish was he for emphasizing he wants guarantees he will live happy ever after if somebody could tell him what to do. I laughed at him when he posted his past scores as indicating something yet to happen regarding his physical and athletic ability to perform at a sustained level of activity hour after hour, day after day in a regimented and controlled selection process.

However, the actual intent of the strong like bull smart like tractor figurative language was an attempt to move the mature and critical thinking reader into a mode of perception that focusing only on fitness does not ensure a candidate is bringing the complete personal ability and mettle needed to complete the initial selection and qualification training process. Clearly, I have exceeded the maturity and critical thinking abilities of some readers.

The intent is not giving somebody crap about their choice, their lack of abilities to achieve, but to associate things said or done with how things truly are. Many come here with fantasy of work that takes place in a world that does not exist. Pararescue is a very rewarding occupation, but so is being a SEAL, ranger, or burger flipper at McDonalds. The clue is dreams are nice, but they remain dreams if you try not. Occasionally some dreamers find sometimes-obtained fantasy is not the pleasant satisfying reality expected.


Edited by Yukon (Fri Feb 27 2004 00:59 AM)

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#23292 - Fri Feb 27 2004 03:36 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
neeshman Offline
New Member

Registered: Sun Dec 07 2003
Posts: 36
Loc: St. George, Utah
[] The clue is dreams are nice, but they remain dreams if you try not. Occasionally some dreamers find sometimes-obtained fantasy is not the pleasant satisfying reality expected [/] Well Said Yukon. I understand what you said and I agree, I was just trying to give Wetze1 some positive influence since it was evident he was getting pissed off. LOL! Peace out!
_________________________
I AM GOING TO BE A PJ! Period.

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#23293 - Sun Jul 25 2004 23:21 PM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
Merchant Offline
New Member

Registered: Thu Dec 04 2003
Posts: 7
Loc: Tacoma WA
The young mans spelling and grammar are about norm for the Internet generation. They have some rather lax rules about such things in their world of instant message and email, in ICQ the short cuts they take are sometimes much like trying to read the text on the personalized license plate ahead of you in fast traffic.

Encouragement is the opt word with the youth, watch is the way to determine their strength. When all else fails with them knock the pins from beneth them and see if they bounce back. Should they lie upon their back like a turtle, roll them over and send them on their way.

They have little patience, does the youth ever have patience? They can not have it today.

They have a poor sense of history, when did Conan live?

They have no tradition, instill a sense of tradition in them. Teach them the history of the group, teach them patience. Teach them to have a sense of humor, it will serve them through out their life, especially in the military.

If he doesn't make it as a PJ, there are many other honorable places to serve in the Air Force.

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#23294 - Wed Jul 28 2004 08:02 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
PJ2FBI Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jul 26 2004
Posts: 24
Loc: Alabama
Wetze1, Not sure if this will help your decision making process any but I was a PJ and got into the FBI with no problem. Addtionally, I know three CCT officers and another PJ that are also in the bureau right now. In fact, one of the CCT officers was my team leader at my last unit. I can tell you that it doesn't really matter what you did in the military as far as the FBI is concerned. Most of the other ex-military guys in my class were just regular desk jockeys. Good luck man.

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#23295 - Wed Jul 28 2004 09:30 AM Re: Help! Trying to weight benifits between PJ or Seal
novaboy16 Offline
New Member

Registered: Mon Jul 26 2004
Posts: 43
I wanted to say this a couple of days ago but I did not have a login.
A couple of years ago I was training hard everyday to try out. I was working at the BX at DM and every once in awhile I would talk to the PJs there. MSgt Huth (If I messed this up please for give me), Wags, a chief PJ, another whos wife worked at the credit union there, and all the CROs I have met and other pjs at Patrick and various other places. All of them have said the same thing. "If you want it bad enough you will not give up." This is very true. It applys to what wetze1 is asking. He has to make up his mind after searching and talking to PJs and SEALs. IMO an 18y/o should not be trusting a forum to make up his mind (Even though there is a plethora of information on this site). The information is out there as to what the differences between the two career fields are. You cannot be lazy in searching for an answer. Especially if it is easy answer to find. One thing i have to say about all the PJs and CROs I have met, they are all very calm individuals, and for a person to get spastic in an internet forum is something I look at as a fault they need to work on. It is a very serious thing making up your mind about doing this. Not alot of people have the patience this career field needs.
All I can say now is good luck!

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