Im to the point where I have plateaued...

I have been doing about different types of Workouts..

Some days I'll do 6 miles, at a quick jog.
other times 3 miles at a run, or slow run.
and other times, sprints...

It seems like Im working everything, but I can get my 3 mile time down. Im at around 21 minutes or something...

what would you suggest to drop 3 minutes off? what kind of running do i need to concentrate on more?

Thanks for all the help.
Ben

Intervals are the answer. Run a search and you should find what you need. If that is what you mean by "sprints", I would recommend taking a week off. Then, you might try one or more of the following:
- Begin working hard on ballistic kettlebell drills
- run on hilly terrain
- Run with some weight on
- work on your technique
- try to increase your flexibility with a regular stretching routine (you'd be surprised)

I did do a search <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> mabye i typed in the wrong thing.

I'll try that thanks.,

I have found that, in general, if I can't get my run times down for 2-5 mile distances, I am overtrainning.

This seems to manifest as a lack of time progress, followed by some pretty good pain in the shins and lower leg muscles.

If you have access to a set of kettlebells, I strongly suggest that you use them 3-5 times a week, and follow the advice found in the kettbell trainning forums on this site.

RKC, if you're reading this, I can't thank you enough. Your advice, and the advice of all you other motivators on this site, have gotten my run times down like a mother. I have gotten my 5k/3.1 mile times back down to something reasonable (last week was 19:51, three months ago was 23:52).

I did this running two days a week, for varying distances of 1.5-5 miles, doing getting in the pool 2-3 days a week, and doing 2-6 "omlet" circuts a day, about 4-6 times a week.

Sometimes we just push too hard. RKC has mentioned that overtrainning can be a great tool, but must be applied carefully (please pardon the paraphrasing), and I have found his advice to be as good as gold.

Maybe the answer to your problem is that you are putting out your "max" effort. This may not be your "best" effort. Everyone at some point wants to be a superman/woman. But, from my vantage point, which should be taken with more than one grain of salt, it comes down to a choice; Do I want this badly enough to back off when I need to, or do I need to satisfy my ego by not listening to my body and my mentors, overtrainning, and thinking that this makes me hard.

Yes there are days when you need to tell your body to "Shut the hell up. I'm not listening to your sniveling. Suck it up and like it." But there are also days where one has to tell the ego the same thing.

Again, thank you to everyone on this forum for your questions, answers, and advice. It has helped me to progress a hell of a lot.


Try tracking your milage. Knock off 10-20%. try that for two to three weeks, at a consistent pace, 2-3 times a week, with one extra day on sprinting/ fartlek running.

Keep track of your times for this period. Increase your milage again. Don't increase your speed. You should only be going full out once every two weeks or so. You can do it once a week if you absolutely have to be a hard *** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . However, I have found that building up my milage has been more helpful than going to the max every week.
Hard sprinting, not "death defying" work, has helped my progress more than burying myself next to the track. Try doing 1/8-1/4 mile "sprints" at a 6:00-6:30 per mile pace until you can get your times down, and then adjust accordingly.

This has worked well for me, but then again this might have some "holes" in it as well. Take it with a grain of salt, but I hope it helps if you decide to try it in part or whole.
Good luck and stay motivated.

Thanks clownfeet.

I'll look into the kettlebelle some more... From what I looked at, it was a lot of upper body, and then just stretching lower body?

is there also work for your lower body? am i missing something?

I'll go look some more.

Ben

Again, hope it helps...

As far as the kettlebell thing goes, there is a lot of lower/mid body strength and endurance involved. Yes, you can use them to strengthen your arms and back, and they are very effective for doing that, but let me put it another way.

I left a bit out of my last post. I do kettlebell strength "grinding" drills 1-3 times a week or so, along with some cals during the week occasionally, and that helps keep my PFT scores pretty resonable. But there is another side of the kettlebell... an evil side.
These things can and will kick the *** out of most peoples' cardiovascular system.
There are a number of "ballistic" drills that affect the lower body. Most of the cardio drills one does with a kettlebell (which can be done with dumbells, but with less violence and benefit) involve using the hips and legs to give momentum to the weight. This makes you have to work with a lot of muscle groups to stay on balance, and be effective.
I have found that this lends itself to strengthing the muscle groups in the hips and upper leg, some in the lower leg, that are used a great deal when running. It doesn't get all of them, and not the same way a good run will, but the kettlebells seem to have helped. I get a good cardio workout without tearing up my shins. I also get a good strength/endurance workout in my legs and hips. That's also why I'm just now going to a 3x/week running schedule. I didn't want to overload by doing both simultaneously over the winter.
That and I'm a wuss. New England winters are pretty damn cold, IMHO.

If kettlebells are or become undesireable, or unavailible, have you tried getting access to a pool, or a bike?

How long have you been running, and how much have you tried to progress in that time frame? I forgot to ask before, could be relevant to getting an educated opinion from others on this board that know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

Ben, I meant to do a search for "intervals". Some good advice, clownfeet. I would recommend in going for volume instead of speed, to focus on time, not distance. In other words say, "I'm going to run for 45 minutes". This is for a bunch of reasons. There was an extended thread on that a while back, but basically, your body never knows how far it is going, just how long it must supply a certain amount of energy. If your goal is the indoc., run for 45-50 minutes instead of aiming for 6 miles and running longer if you can't get there in time. Eventually you will be covering 6 miles as you speed up.

I see that you're from Redmond. I grew up in Bellevue (SHS'98). Ah, another motivated Norwester. When I was training for the Marine Corps, I used to run down the middle of NE 8th St. to Bellevue Square and back at midnight.

Another idea: distance swimming is a great way to increase overall endurance and wind. You can safely train 5-6 days/wk in the pool. You have to get good at it anyway and it just so happens that it has a synergistic training effect when coupled with running.

I also would tell you to do intervals to drop your times. It sounds like you have a pretty good endurance base built, you just need to get your feet moving faster. My favorite interval training is 400mx12 sprints. Set your self a good pace for the first lap and every two laps aim for two seconds faster than the last lap. It is important not to rest to long between intervals. I cross then line then baby jog the corner and cut back across the field to the start line. Remember to push your comfort zone and you will get faster. Another good thing to do is plyo Workouts a couple times per week, Ive had good results with them. I would also follow that advice on swimming. It is not as hard on your body as running and just as good of an exercise( if not better). I'm at the point now where I can't wait to swim after a run and weights.